[Trombone-l] Recordings for study purposes (was Sonata by George FrederickMcKay)

[Robert Barron]

Hi!  I certainly appreciate the feedback from everyone on this.  Thank you 
for sharing your thoughts and philosophies and a special thank you to David 
Guion for researching worldcat and coming up with the OCLS #s and data 
needed for the librarian.  I did find the entry for Bowling Green but I 
didn't see anything else.

It is kind of an interesting discussion.  My son has participated in NYSSMA 
since 6th grade and the truth is that he has never before used a recording 
to prepare a piece.  This year he is auditioning for All State and is 
working with an accompanist for the first time.  It is actually the 
accompanist, a professional musician, who requested that I find a recording 
for him if at all possible.  (Believe me, I love my son dearly but he would 
never have come up with that idea on his own!  He is just kind of an 
innocent person and it just wouldn't occur to him.)

I think perhaps the accompanist was trying to catch up so he could rehearse 
sooner with my son.  He was gracious enough to take this on as it was beyond 
the abilities of the first accompanist we asked to do it.  So I think under 
the circumstances, I need to accommodate his request if at all possible.

I have requested the recordings through the interlibrary loan at the 
University at Albany.  As was suggested by a number of you, the librarian 
did not make any promises and was pleased to know that I was aware it might 
be difficult/impossible.  Infact, he advised me that Bowling Green has a 
policy of not loaning media so I am holding out hope for Ohio State.

We will see, I am sure it will all work out either way.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.  It is nice to have found this 
listserv.  I have a lived with a trombone player for 6 years now and they 
are certainly a different breed!  But I do feel blessed to have a child who 
is talented in music as it is something he will always have throughout his 
life.

Laura Barron




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher R Tune" <christune at christune.com>
To: "Tom Ervin" <ervint at u.arizona.edu>
Cc: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Recordings for study purposes (was Sonata by 
George FrederickMcKay)


> I'd tend to agree with this, while still taking serious note of the
> earlier caveat, which I believe is very important, and I'd add something
> (see below):
>
> While it is no small matter to want to be a unique player, it is important
> to be able to use recordings to understand music and to be able to produce
> recordings for music fans.  The use of recordings is important too, for
> lessons, and for the quick recitals (or gigs) that are done here and
> there.  We need OBJECTIVE info about our performances, which are not
> colored by the adrenaline that is flowing during the more difficult parts,
> or the "near misses" which seem to be inevitable, even when very well
> prepared.
>
> I think the earlier comment allows for an effective strategy:
>
> Do not spend much time immersed in the earlier versions of your solo
> pieces, but rather approach them fresh along with your accompanist, while
> first rehearsing the piece.  Do a recording of yourself as a "scratch
> recording" to undestand how you are approaching the piece.  Try and
> establish a style and pattern which satisfies you as an artist.
>
> Once you have gotten the piece pretty damn good, then listen to the other
> artists for inspiration, extra energy and possible style tweaks, while
> remembering that each player is a unique stylist.  Don't try to BE ALESSI.
> . .that is a waste of energy.   Be BETTER!  Be "Super-[fill in your name
> here]
>
> (I say this not meaning any denigration to Joe. . rather to give a
> destination to reach for)
>
> And, as Tom mentions, recordings can really help sort out ultra
> sophisticated material, into sound patterns that might not be obvious when
> you first examine or rehearse musical works.  Some of this stuff is so
> intricate, that the sound of a competent orchestra or two, helps give you
> places to emphasize in your own performance, which can lead to great
> performances.  The idea is to continue to shoot for sound which is like
> sung music, but which comes from your horn.  To make a team out of your
> section and out of the orchestra, and to put forth a fantastic
> performance.
>
> Tune
>
>
>
> On Fri, March 6, 2009 1:38 pm, Tom Ervin wrote:
>> I must say some nice things about recordings, however good the
>> contributions by Bob and Chuck.
>>
>> 1) When I was a kid (along with Chuck and Bob) we only had a few
>> recordings of the legit trombone literature, very few indeed, yes
>> that's right. They were very good assists, and helped us (me) to get
>> some very tricky pieces "right"(accurate)  in a shorter period of
>> time. I never found it possible or desirable to bypass the ink, and
>> my teachers always had me look for good ways to put my own stamp on a
>> piece. Recordings, wisely used, help make it possible for today's
>> students to learn our literature faster, to achieve and excel more
>> quickly.
>>
>> 2) I'm just betting that the first performances of, say, "Le Sacre du
>> Printemps," were just terrible performances, ragged and full of
>> errors. Later, though, with the help of recordings, orchestras (and
>> the players in them) were able to prepare these difficult works with
>> much less rehearsal time. Recordings have raised the standards for
>> all of us -- players, ensembles, conductors.
>>
>> 3) And what players they are, usually, on these recordings. How
>> terrific that the youngsters can now hear early in life, the fine
>> tone and technique, and interpretations, of the best artists. It sure
>> beats trying to teach your own self.
>>
>> 4) And speaking of "teaching yourself," I've always agreed with Jamey
>> Aebersold about jazz, "The recordings are the best teachers."
>> There's so darn much to learn now. Without listening to recordings,
>> trying to do-it-yourself, most of the kids will never get it right.
>>
>> Tom Ervin
>>
>>>> Curmudgeon's answer: back in the day before...when students
>>>> walked to school 10 miles uphill both ways..sheet music was
>>>> the only "record" of the music...
>>>>
>>
>> I have to agree with Bob on this one. I'm certainly not opposed to a kid
>> having a chance to hear a particular piece once before trying to play
>> it, but way too many kids use the recording as a "this is how it goes"
>> device.  No, that is NOT how it goes, even if Joe Alessi is performing
>> it.  It's ONE of the ways it might go, but is not necessarily the
>> definitive way.  Everything you need to know is right there in front of
>> you on the sheet music. Tempos, notes, dynamics and phrases are all
>> there in black and white. What you do with them is up to you. Certainly
>> you want to give a good presentation, and you might like to emulate some
>> of the artistry of your favorite superhero.  But the printed music
>> itself is the ultimate ur-source of information about how to play a
>> work. Christian Lindberg might play it this way, Mark Lawrence that way
>> and Joe Alessi still another.  Are they all wrong because they don't
>> agree?  Certainly not.  But they are all looking at the same sheet of
>> paper when they work up the chart. Being a New York State print music
>> retailer for 20 years, I am familiar with how NYSSMA works.  They're
>> looking primarily for accuracy, plus whatever artistry the student can
>> bring to the table.  That means getting the notes is the first step.
>> Putting them in the right place rhythmically is the next. Playing them
>> loud or soft as printed follows.  NYSSMA is fairly mechanical this way.
>> Hearing recordings of works will not in any way help this aspect of the
>> performance-you can either play the notes or you can't.  And of course
>> you don't want to play like a robot, but as long as you nail all the
>> ink, you're going to be scored high.  If you add a little musicianship
>> to boot, then look out.  The neat thing is that musicianship advice is
>> abundant.  You don't have to have a trombonist to provide it.  If your
>> kid works up the McKay the best he can, executing all the ink perfectly,
>> then he can play it for he town's musical genius(es), who could be a
>> guitarist, a cellist or even a woodwind player (yikes!).  I'm kidding of
>> course--some of my best musicianship lessons came from folks who knew
>> nothing of the trombone except that it was behind them in the orchestra.
>> In short, recordings are great to get a general feel, but they are
>> absolutely not necessary to create a compelling performance.  In fact,
>> they may cause just the opposite to occur - another rubber stamp
>> Lindberg/Alessi/whomever copycat performance attempt.  Good luck!
>>
>> --Chuck
>>
>> Tom Ervin
>> ervint at u.arizona.edu
>> Prof of Trombone, Univ Arizona (Emeritus)
>> ...now a recovering trombone player.... ; >}
>> (520)241-4411 (cell)
>> website:     tom-ervin.com
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> Chris Tune
>
> Remember:
>
> "It's music, not brain surgery. . ."
> anon
>
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