[Trombone-l] Antique horns

[David Leep]

I haven't been able to research this in a good library yet, but what I find
on the web about Sax's six-valve trombone (and trying to sift through the
usual ambiguity/inconsistency) seems to confirm the first interpretation:
activating a valve shortens the air column, all valves up = straight through
to the last return loop = 7th position.

-DL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Horton" <rayhorton at insightbb.com>
To: "David Leep" <leepda at msn.com>
Cc: <trombone-l at samford.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Antique horns


> Hmm.  Your first theory  would seem easier to play, but backwards to
> every other valve system.  (Imagine trilling  A to Bb - hold down the
> second valve for A, adding the first raises it to Bb). Your second
> theory is a little more similar to modern valves but harder - really
> more like pushing a slide out with your fingers.
>
>
> My head's exploding.
>
>
> RBH
>
>
> David Leep wrote:
> > Thanks for the appreciation, Ray.
> >
> > I now see that my proposed explanation assumes that the valves, when
> > disengaged, favor the straight-through path as usual nowadays.  Since I
> > can't see inside them and don't know the history, there may be another
> > possibility -- what if the default position of the valves favors the
side
> > ports instead?  Then no-valves-down would yield the shortest path after
all
> > (via the first-valve crook), and pressing valves would generate
positions 2
> > through 7 as Adrian said, except that you would have to press not only
the
> > farthest valve you wanted but also hold down all lower-numbered ones as
> > well.  (I don't know whether such a fingering scheme would be practical.
> > Would it be more like woodwinds?  Other websites attribute
similar-looking
> > six-valve trombones to Adolphe Sax.  Hmmm....)
> >
> > Does anyone know which of these two interpretations of the valve action
is
> > correct?
> >
> > -DL
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Ray Horton" <rayhorton at insightbb.com>
> > To: "David Leep" <leepda at msn.com>
> > Cc: <trombone-l at samford.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Antique horns
> >
> >
> >
> >> Wow.  Thanks for that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ray
> >>
> >>
> >> David Leep wrote:
> >>
> >>> Adrian,  I think you are right about the one-valve-at-a-time, but
notice
> >>> that the branch paths at the valves appear to be not extensions but
> >>> shortcuts -- that is why the the tubing goes twice through (once out
> >>>
> > from
> >
> >>> the mouthpiece, once back toward the bell) for only one set of valve
> >>>
> > crooks.
> >
> >>> (That puzzled me too at first.)  If I'm reading the picture right, the
> >>> valves would represent positions 1 through 6 (and if for any reason
more
> >>> than one valve was pressed, only the lowest-numbered one would count)
> >>>
> > and
> >
> >>> all-valves-disengaged (I hesitate to call it the "open horn") would be
> >>>
> > 7th.
> >
> >>> What fun!
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Adrian Drover" <slide.rule at adiosmusic.com>
> >>> To: "'Danner, Mearl'" <jmdanner at samford.edu>; "'trombone-l'"
> >>> <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:19 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Antique horns
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> From: Danner, Mearl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My favorite
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> > http://www.horncollector.com/Trombones/Mahillon/6%20Valve%20Mahillon.htm
> >
> >>>>> Wonder what was being smoked when this idea came up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Has anyone figured out how this system works?  The 2nd valve slide is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> longer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> than that of the 1st.  Likewise the 5th is longer than the 4th.  It
> >>>>
> > would
> >
> >>>> seem that only one valve would be pressed at a time and that the 6
> >>>>
> > valves
> >
> >>>> represent positions 2 thru' 7 of the slide 'bone.  That seems to
result
> >>>>
> > in
> >
> >>>> an unnecessary amount of tubing, tho' it would compensate for the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> sharpness
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> that results from pressing valves in combination.  It appears also
that
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> tubing goes thru' the valve casing twice yet there is only one set of
> >>>> extension tubing.  That doesn't make much sense to me.  But then I've
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> *not*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> been smoking wacky baccy.
> >>>>
> >>>> A.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> Trombone-l at samford.edu
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>