[Trombone-l] do you object to teaching euph/baritone?

Sat Feb 7 16:26:53 CST 2009

There are always two routes that one can take when going to work.  Oddly
enough my dentist and I had this conversation:

When my dentist, Dr. Mark Kaufman started out he was not making that much
money, and was struggling. He was talking to the owner of a gas station who
did car repair, and had worked on Mark's car.  The station owner told him
this.

"When you work for yourself (i.e. entrepreneurship) life will start out
pretty bad, but it will continue to improve over time, with things
ultimately getting real good."

"When you work for others (i.e. an employee) life will start out pretty
good, bud gradually things will get worse and worse."

I'm not sure that it is this black-and-white. But I see the point.  And
perhaps we musicians need to be much more aware of this kind of career
counseling, when we speak to our students. Obviously, the freelancers are
the entrepreneurs, and those who work in large organizations such as
universities, or in large orchestras, "may" be more the employee type.
Please note that this has nothing to do with creative ability. Great
creativity is exhibited by both types of workers.  Remember, almost all of
science is done by persons in academia.

Maybe that Euphonium oriented person needs to assess whether they are really
comfortable taking risk, or they are looking for more security. Perhaps
discussion about what life is like at home is in order.

For the persons who work for themselves, work may be hard, but it can be,
and often is, fun too.  Those who work for themselves, even if they are
freelance trombonists, have more of an excitement about doing their craft or
art.  They are constantly on the lookout for what is going on around them.
I have been fortunate enough to be a friend or acquaintance of several
successful entrepreneurs and I think I'm observing just these
characteristics.  Of course they need to be resilient, because there are
going to be hard times too.

Those who view themselves as primarily employees (I think symphony players
divide up into both "employee oriented", and "entrepreneur-like", thus you
have symphony players who freelance, and write books, and do seminars. .
.etc.) tend to pay attention to fitting in, and deciphering the social cues
they need to, in order to stay a part of the group, while faithfully
fulfilling their job duties. These folk also tend to improve via mentoring,
or perhaps using a certification, or designation of some sort so that they
qualify for improved duties. Life can be extremely stressful in a dynamic
organization or enterprise, which has to change radically to cope with the
outside world. I'm sure we can see lots of this right now, with our economy
reeling from serious adjusting of the real estate, mortgage and credit
markets.

Don't get me wrong about employees.  I am a big admirer of those who work in
the more employee class.  I count our military as one of these groups.  I
completely admire those folk. Also, my dad was one of those who worked
faithfully right to retirement, and it provided our family with great
security. For a lot of the last century, this employee model was the ideal
model applied to the working life, and its effect upon society and family
was mostly positive.  Of course these ideas change over time, and sometimes
very radically.

I think what I'm trying to get across is that there are two different types
of personalities here, and we all need to assess which group we fit into, or
whether we have a mixed set of characteristics.  If someone who is very risk
averse tries to live life taking risk, then they may be in for a lot of
disappointments. Conversely, if a born risk-taker seeks to "fit in" with a
large organization, unless they are very lucky, they may wind up
disappointing everyone including themselves.

Sorry about the long diatribe, but here is a bit of MTC:

There are more entrepreneurs making trombones now, than at any time I can
remember in the past.  I think of Shires, Kanstul, several fine European
makers, and also of outfits like Ivan Gidding's company, also I can see some
of the Chinese makers are getting very, very serious about making finely
crafted instruments. 

Tune

-----Original Message-----
From: trombone-l-bounces at samford.edu [mailto:trombone-l-bounces at samford.edu]
On Behalf Of George Butler
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:35 AM
To: mcclurefamily at srt.com
Cc: Trombone List
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] do you object to teaching euph/baritone?

Chris Ann has made a lot of good points.  Here in Tallinn, there's the
Police Band, the Defense Forces Band, the Border Guard Band.  There may be
as many euphonium positions (51?) as there are trombone jobs at the national
symphony and at the opera.

Larry, if your colleague is worried about employment prospects, why does he
accept orchestral trombone students?

Adam Frey wakes up every morning unemployed, yet he's a one-man industry.  I
can't think of anyone more involved in making music.  He performs, he
records, he commissions new works, he teaches, he writes, he sells, he
travels the world.  When he isn't living on an airplane, he lives in a nice
house in Atlanta.

Adam is a bright guy, he's talented, he works hard.  Not all of us can
do what he does, nor can we all do what Christian Lindberg does.

What if someone had told Adam, "Sonny, there's no future in euphonium, go be
a lawyer/banker/consultant."  What if someone had told Christian to keep his
orchestra job?  Same with Sheona White on alto horn, or Bruce Dickey on
cornetto?  Our world wouldn't be as rich, would it?

--George in snowy Estonia 

--- On Thu, 2/5/09, mcclurefamily at srt.com <mcclurefamily at srt.com> wrote:

From: mcclurefamily at srt.com <mcclurefamily at srt.com>
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] do you object to teaching euph/baritone?
To: trombone-l at samford.edu
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 4:05 AM

Just got done playing a symphony gig. The theme was "Out of This
World" and featured, amongst other selections, 2 of the Holst
Planets--Jupiter and Mars.

We had a tenor tuba (aka euphonium) there. He's an outstanding
conductor of orchestras, concert bands and choirs and his
musicianship and leadership is stellar. In part, I'm sure, from
counting 97 measures of rests with the rest of us in the trombone
section.

Would this instructor also be against the woodwind instructor
teaching bass saxophone? We had a member of the orchestra playing
that as well [covered the contrabassoon parts  with great finesse!]

The only fact your colleague has correct is the soloist gigs are
few. So, too are vocal performance gigs. Does he hold that those
students shouldn't get instruction, too?

I played in the field bands in the Marine Corps. When I was able
to do my music ed degree, my professor also had USMC band
experience. He was a euphonium soloist with the President's Own.
Where would I be if he had refused to teach me in his low brass
studio? (yes, he knew the trombone well...)

I'd be thrilled to see a trombone or euphonium student in MS or
HS. I am in a rural area and they are getting rarer (students in
band as well as low brass). If they get out of HS and want to
major in Euph OR Trombone at your college, you can bet I'm going
to go to any length to get you or an instructor recommended by you.

Hmm. 12 service bands in the Marine Corps, 18 in the Army, 14 in
the Navy, 12 in the Air Force. That's not counting the reserve
bands and the National Guard. Full time pay and insurance and
other benefits. Yep, a real dead end job... That's why I had it
for 14 years, right?

Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to be lecturing you...you're not the one
with the misinformation.

Common mindset? I do not think this is a current reality in my
area. The trombones are much too busy picking on the trumpets and
cornets (in brass band) to pester the Euphoniums.

more than my two cent's worth!

Chris Ann McClure Sgt USMC, Retired
Quantico, Camp Lejeune, Okinawa and Parris Island Band, retired
Bass Trombone, Euphonium, Baritone, Minot Symphony Orchestra,
Brass Band of Minot, Minot Area Community Concert Band, & freelance
K-12 Music Teacher, currently teaching PK-5, out in ND

quote:
******************************************************************
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:39:18 -0600
From: "Borden, Lawrence" <lawrence.l.borden at Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: [Trombone-l] do you object to teaching euph/baritone?

Folks,

 I have a colleague who objects to teaching euph since there is
no continuing path except (in his opinion) a band director,
community band,or service band.

I feel this is wrong since it is only the rarest case that we
find someone wanting to major in euph performance. Do you think
this opinion is common among our brethren?

Larry

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