[Trombone-l] Slide vibrato - Mahler 3

Fri Nov 21 17:46:21 CST 2008

(This is in no way a slam against string players)...

A violin or nearly any other string voice except double-bass sounds often thin and almost 'reedy' without the tremble features.  It takes a very fine musician to 1) hit the note pitch on and 2) keep the tone rich without trembling.

MTC...  If that were the case, wouldn't they be trombone players?? 

~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= 

john burton
Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone
Kanawha Valley Community Band / Slide-by-Slide
South Charleston, West Virginia

-----Original Message-----
From: thetubameister at roadrunner.com [mailto:thetubameister at roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:05 PM
To: trombone-l at server5.samford.edu; John Burton
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Slide vibrato - Mahler 3

As an aside, I think it's interesting that 15 years ago, one of the easiest ways to identify "baroque technique" in historic performance was the lack of vibrato in the strings.  Especially with the violins, that's no longer true... even a little. Voice too.

Sad...

J.c.S.

---- John Burton <John.Burton at JohnBurton.org> wrote: 
> Perhaps a silly aside, but don't string players "tremble" ALL THE TIME?  Regardless if it's classical or jazz, pop or pops...
> 
> Not that I consider myself a brass cello, but consider that strings do that all the time, and usually (IMNSHO) excessively.
> 
> We've beat this horse to death before, but vibrato, especially slide vibrato can be very useful as an expression. Sometimes a slow slide vibrato will bring that *snap* to an expressive piece that nothing else can.  And who would argue with Tommy Dorsey's fast slide vibrato in "Song of India"...
> 
> I'm just saying...
> 
> (Back to my hidey hole)...
> 
> ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
>  
> john burton
> Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone
> Kanawha Valley Community Band / Slide-by-Slide South Charleston, West 
> Virginia
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trombone-l-bounces at samford.edu 
> [mailto:trombone-l-bounces at samford.edu] On Behalf Of Ray Horton
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:00 PM
> To: Howard Spindel
> Cc: trombone-l at server5.samford.edu
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Slide vibrato - Mahler 3
> 
> I have not been clear.  I have no complaint with his playing, slide 
> vibrato and all. I like it.
> 
> 
> The fact that it got complaints and even ridicule here and on youtube 
> (it was posted here with the comment "Slide vibrato - Mahler 3: Its 
> the orchestra of La Scala, so maybe he thought of the solo as an 
> operatic
> aria.") prompted my comments that slide vibrato in classical musical 
> calls attention to itself - perhaps undue attention to itself.
> 
> 
> RBH
> 
> 
> Howard Spindel wrote:
> > That's really a small amount of slide vibrato.  YouTube sound isn't 
> > the greatest, but he sounds good to me.  Is it results that count, 
> > or do we downgrade guys if we consider their technique unusual?
> >
> > I'd be happy with that kind of result (if I could do it) no matter 
> > what technique I used!
> >
> > Another interesting point:  he plays it on a straight horn.  The low 
> > B naturals are a lot easier for me on an F-attachment.
> >
> > Howard
> >
> > At 08:14 PM 11/19/2008, Ray Horton wrote:
> >   
> >> This is opening up an ancient thread.  I didn't get a chance to 
> >> listen to when it was first posted and just happened across the link.
> >>
> >> 1st trombonist of La Scala using some (a small amount of) slide 
> >> vibrato on the Mahler 3rd solo:
> >>
> >> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUFi0nhv3w>
> >>
> >>
> >> Some guys here didn't like it, some did.
> >>
> >>
> >> Reinforces what I tell my students:  Slide vibrato, wholly 
> >> appropriate in jazz and pop, calls attention to itself in serious 
> >> playing.  The guy sounds great, but gets complaints, here and in 
> >> the youtube comments.  If he did the same amount, or even more, of 
> >> jaw/lip/airstream vibrato, no complaints.
> >>
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jim Nova wrote:
> >>     
> >>> I'm fairly certain that's Torsten Edvar playing the solo. He's a 
> >>> fellow Curtis Graduate and student of the late, great Glenn Dodson 
> >>> (former principal of Philly Orchestra and one of Joe Alessi's 
> >>> teachers). When I studied with Dodson at Curtis he sometimes 
> >>> suggested a little
> >>>       
> >> slide vibrato
> >>     
> >>> to warm up the sound on certain passages. If you weren't watching
> >>>       
> >> the video
> >>     
> >>> and just listening, I think you'd barely notice the vibrato. I 
> >>> think he sounds fantastic!
> >>>
> >>> Jim Nova
> >>> Assistant Principal Trombone-Utah Symphony Principal 
> >>> Trombone-Boston Pops Esplanade Orchestra jim at jimnova.com 
> >>> www.jimnova.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: <jgreen at gol.com>
> >>> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> >>> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:41 AM
> >>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Slide vibrato - Mahler 3
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>> Slide vibrato - Mahler 3:
> >>>> Its the orchestra of La Scala, so maybe he thought of the solo as 
> >>>> an operatic aria.
> >>>> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUFi0nhv3w>
> >>>>
> >>>> ~~~
> >>>> ~~~
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at maillists.samford.edu
> >>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> >>>>
> >>>>         
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at maillists.samford.edu
> >>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>       
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at samford.edu
> >> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> >>     
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at samford.edu
> > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at samford.edu
> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at samford.edu
> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l