[Trombone-l] Jazz Cimbasso

[Dennis Clason]

Howard,

I recall the discussion from the last century (!?!), and there's no 
question that you're correct.

I should have qualified my statement by saying the instrument used as a 
cimbasso *today* is basically a valve contrabass trombone.

Dennis

Howard Weiner wrote:
> At 11:29 12.03.2008 -0600, Dennis Clason wrote:
>> A cimbasso is (basically) a valve contrabass trombone.  The parts (where
>> they exist, which is usually in Verdi and Puccini operas) are usually
>> covered by a tubist.
>
> I actually didn't want to get involved  (invalved?) in this 
> discussion, but I can't let Dennis' comment go unchallenged.
>
> The "cimbasso [that] is basically a valve contrabass trombone" has 
> nothing at all to do with the historical instrument called "cimbasso"!
>
> Here is what I wrote during a similar discussion on the list a mere 
> ten years ago:
>
> [self-quote]
> The term "cimbasso" has been the source of much confusion. A recent 
> article by Renato Meucci, "The Cimbasso and Related Instruments in 
> 19th-Century Italy" Galpin Society Journal 49 (1996) sheds much light 
> into the cimbasso darkness.
>
> The name: The origin of the name is not known. Meucci writes: "There 
> can be no doubt that the terms "corno basso" and "cimbasso" were 
> synonymous. However the difference rested in a distinction of 
> terminology: while _corno basso_ was academic, found only in treatises 
> and theoretical works, _cimbasso_ was everyday musicians' jargon used 
> in scores and tutors. I wish to advance here the theory that the term 
> _cimbasso_ derives from an abbreviated form of _corno basso_ (or 
> perhaps _corno in basso_) originally written _c. basso_ or _c. in 
> basso_, whence _cimbasso_. This is indirectly confirmed by the lack of 
> consistency in spelling, which varies from _cimbasso_ (most 
> frequently) to _simbasso_ and _gimbasso_, with abbreviations such as 
> _gibas_ found in manuscript scores and documents."
>
> What is or was a "cimbasso"? A manuscript from c. 1832 describes the
> _cimbasso_ as "a kind of serpent but of different shape, having a 
> similar range and able to play in all keys." The original "cimbasso" 
> was thus a wooden instrument (though some were apparently also made of 
> metal) in bassoon form, with a cup mouthpiece. Meucchi's article shows 
> several contemporary illustrations (with fingering charts) and also a 
> photo of one of several surviving museum instruments.
>
> In the course of the 19th century, the "cimbasso" was supplanted by the
> ophecleide (both keyed and valved models), this in turn by the 
> bombardone and pelittone (perhaps best described as forerunners of the 
> tuba). The hitch is that all these instruments were also referred to 
> as "cimbasso"!!! Then in 1881, a valved contrabass trombone was built 
> at the request of Verdi, who didn't like the sound of the "bombardon." 
> He felt that the bombardon didn't blend well with the trombones. The 
> new instrument became known as the "trombone contrabbasso Verdi." It 
> was for this instrument that Verdi wrote the parts in Otello and 
> Falstaff.
>
> For those who want to know more, I highly recommend Meucchi's article.
> [edit: Meucchi's article in the Galpin Society Journal is the 
> translation of an Italian-language article which includes an appendix 
> listing several hundred works, mostly operas, that call for cimbasso.]
>
> The "Alexander cimbasso" is a whole different story. In the 1950s and 60s
> there was a fellow here in Germany, Hans Kunitz by name, who developed 
> a sort of (slide) contrabass trombone. He gave his invention the name 
> "cimbasso" because he was conviced that it was the instrument Verdi 
> intended when he designated "cimbasso" in his scores. (I am aware of 
> the chronological problems inherent here, but most people have 
> unquestioningly accepted Kunitz's assertion. I'm just reporting.)
>
> In any case, Kunitz was also active as a writer on instruments, 
> publishing a series of books on "Die Instrumentation" (Breitkopf & 
> Haertel) still available today. In the volume dealing with the 
> trombone he propagated, among other questionable things, his 
> "cimbasso" as the true bass of the trombone family. Although it has to 
> be obvious to any half-way informed reader that Kunitz was making 
> things up as he went along, his writings on the trombone form the 
> basis for much of German trombone scholarship even today (MGG, MGG2). 
> That's also the reason for the misnamed "Alexander/Thein/Kalison/ etc. 
> cimbasso," which is simply a bass/contrabass trombone.
> [/self-quote]
>
> Howard
>
>
>
> -- 
> Howard Weiner
> h.weiner at online.de
> http://howard-weiner.de/
>
> Tosca jumped to a conclusion. 
>

-- 
--
Dennis L. Clason, Ph.D.
University Statistics Center
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, New Mexico