[Trombone-l] Fwd: Improv in daily routine

Thu Jan 3 12:46:06 CST 2008

Man, is this fun, or whut?

Trombone-L is starting to look like its old self again.  Alex, this  
is great.  Thanks again for taking the time to put your valuable  
thoughts on paper.  I agree with both you and Dan and the other  
contributors.  My point, which wasn't stated very well I admit... was  
that to be a good improviser, one must first learn the instrument.   
But it goes so much deeper than that, doesn't it?

I think you summed it up quite nicely.  And I love that old adage:   
Just have fun.

That's been my entire trombone life, right there.

I'm having a ball!!!!!!!  Lovin' da bone after all these years.
60 and qualifying for senior citizen discounts.
Ha!

Wayne

On Jan 3, 2008, at 11:51 AM, ALEX ILES wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For the improvisor, scales are like vocabulary to a writer or  
> colors on a palette to a painter. They are really useful once they  
> represent a sound to the user. Improvisors practice them with the  
> goal of hearing ideas and creating sounds from those notes. Yes,  
> one starts by playing them "do, re, mi" fashion, but also, in 3rds,  
> in patterns, etc.
>
> But, just as for a composer who writes music down, improvisors  
> learn to play with, embellish and manipulate scales to the point  
> where they generate ideas with that given series of notes--in real  
> time. Improvisation is not all math and analysis. Too many  
> inexperienced look at scales as the "answer". They are merely a  
> suggestion.
>
> DanP, you summed up my thoughts perfectly with this....
>
>> I shun the mentality that you can't get started until you know X,  
>> Y and Z.  That's the same mentality that got them to the point of  
>> having to ask how to get started on improvisation.
>
> I don't think this goes against what you say here at all  too much,  
> Wayne. Scale practice is beneficial to learning your instrument. It  
> helps solidify the connection between the sounds in your head and  
> the right place to stick your slide and chops to get 'em to come  
> out. It also gives players the ability to hear/read music in bigger  
> chunks.
>
> But in terms of improvisation, the benefit comes when that chunk of  
> information becomes real sounds [not just a bunch of notes to apply  
> to a chord symbol]. And in order for that to happen, the player  
> really should have been listening and experimenting on his/her horn  
> without any "knowledge"  and have open ears and the curiosity to  
> play with the knowledge once they acquire it.
>
> Tying things back to Oscar's original post...
>
> I recommend infusing your daily routine with the "spirit" of  
> improvisation as well as including specific "improv-specific"  
> exercises. Maybe this is more of an idea of "flexibility" or  
> "curiosity". Whichever....
>
> Everytime you say to yourself, "Gee, I wonder what this Rochut  
> would sound like up a 4th", or "What if I played Bolero right now  
> like Tommy Dorsey?"  [which a conductor actually asked me to do in  
> real life!!] you are infusing this spirit into your practice. DON'T  
> IGNORE THAT LITTLE VOICE.
>
> It represents an attitude of open-minded musicianship that nearly  
> every great player I have ever spent time observing possesses and  
> expresses. [This includes orchestral players like Joe Alessi!].  
> Take some risks in your practice room. It also keeps you from  
> falling into that practicing-only-what-you-know syndrome.
>
> Besides, if you are in a practice room...
>
> What have you got to lose?!
>
> And when you bring this musical/improvisational/flexible spirit to  
> your outside musical world, you start to experience music on a  
> whole other level!!
>
> To quote Sam Burtis...
>
> "HAVE FUN"!!
>
> Alex Iles
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Wayne Dyess wrote:
>
>> I didn't read your response closely enough, Dan.  Re-read it just
>> now.  I think we can agree that one has to practice improvisation in
>> order to become a good improviser (and player).  Right?
>>
>> I certainly agree with ya on that one.   But I also think there is a
>> methodology that can get you there, just as in all other practice.  I
>> bet we would agree on that, too.
>>
>> I responded on list too soon.
>> Sorry.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Wayne Dyess <texastbone at gt.rr.com>
>>> Date: January 3, 2008 11:00:06 AM CST
>>> To: Daniel Pliskin <daniel_pliskin at hotmail.com>, List Trombone
>>> <TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Improv in daily routine
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 3, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Daniel Pliskin wrote:
>>>
>>>> I shun the mentality that you can't get started until you know X, Y
>>>> and Z.  That's the same mentality that got them to the point of
>>>> having to ask how to get started on improvisation.   And surely, in
>>>> order to get good at improvisation, you need to practice
>>>> improvisation.
>>>>
>>>> DanP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe.  But ya gotta start somewhere.  Same is true whether it is
>>> jazz improvisation or an orchestral transcription.  There is a good
>>> bit of legwork needed before one can be successful.
>>>
>>> So I guess we will have to agree to differ on this one.  I think you
>>> do need to know A, B, and C before you get to X, Y and Z.
>>>
>>>
>>> With all due respect,
>>> --Wayne
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at samford.edu
>>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
>>
>>
>> Dr. J. Wayne Dyess
>> Professor of Trombone
>> and Director of Jazz Studies
>> P. O. Box 10044
>> Lamar University-Beaumont, Texas 77710
>> Visit our alumni jazz band website @
>> http://www.ndotex.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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