[Trombone-l] Improv in daily routine

Thu Jan 3 01:48:23 CST 2008

Great post, Alex.  I agree -- what a great start here on trombone-L  
to a new year.

I think you have laid a great plan here.  There is something here for  
everyone, no matter what the skill level.  When I said earlier, one  
should know all their scales... I still adhere to the idea that one  
needs to know their instrument, or as you suggest -- know your  
limits.  Isn't that what you imply under #2 with regard to Louis  
Armstrong?  He knew his limits.  I like that, but hadn't thought of  
it quite that way.  THANKS!

And I also like your pointing out that it is important to play with  
live musicians, too.  I often compare a jazz solo to having a  
conversation with others.  It's kinda hard to have a "free"  
conversation when you know what the other person is going to say  
verbatim each time (recorded tracks or BIAB).  And playing with  
players who are better has been one of the best adventures I've ever  
experienced.  I had that again recently when I played a gig with a  
Houston Big Band.  I felt like the beginner and the lowest of the  
low, but it was exhilarating at the same time...  and I surprised  
myself a few times.  Amazing what good old fashioned concentration  
and focus can do.  Play under pressure.  There's nothing like it.

I don't think we're ready to change the subject just yet... but I  
have been listening to a good CD the last day or two:

The Brian Pastor Big Band outta Philly.  Mike Purdy does some fine  
bass bone work, and the bone section consists of Brian Pastor (lead),  
Jay Shanman, Paul Morris, and the late Glenn Dodson on track 3  
(Fanfare for the Common Man).  I'm enjoying the charts on this one.   
The CD is called "Common Men," and is copyrighted in 2006.

http://www.brianpastorbigband.com

Check 'em out.  You might wanna play along!

:-)
--Wayne

On Jan 3, 2008, at 12:49 AM, ALEX ILES wrote:

> Great question and some great responses.
>
> What a great start to 2008 on the trombone list!
>
> A few things to add...
>
> 1. "Improv" can mean many things to many people...playing songs by
> ear, embellishing a song you already know [an under-valued skill!!],
> free form composition with your horn [check out Ed Neumeister's book
> for some ideas there], blowing a lick in every key, transcription,
> etc etc.
>
> We tend to think of "improv" as the thing we have to do when we
> confront a set of changes on a big band chart. If that is your first
> exposure to "improv", you are being placed at a huge disadvantage!!
> The most important skills for this task...which involves creativity
> and hearing stuff in your head...are developed independently of
> theory and scales and even certain fundamentals of playing most
> traditional/classical music. Theory, scales and the rest only help
> you if you are already on the path to creating and experimenting with
> non-written music.
>
> 2. No offense to the works Aebersold, Jerry Coker and all the other
> great books out there about improv, but this kind of "thinking" is
> only useful to someone who is prepared to make use of it in the kinds
> of music these guys know best.
>
> I might take some flak for this, but here goes... I do not adhere to
> the "in order to improvise you FIRST have to know all your scales"
> type of thinking. Theory-based improv is largely a product of the
> academic world and the benefits from knowing this information depends
> largely on the kind of music you want to make. Did Louis Armstrong
> "know" all his scales? Does BB King play in ALL 12 keys? Or even use
> much more than a blues scale in his solos? Yet both these gentlemen
> are among the top of their respective  fields...and deservedly so!!
> It's not how much you know, it's how you create given what you DO
> know. The other day at a clinic, I had a young player who could get
> through "Mary Had a Little Lamb" starting on a C [key of Ab...she
> didn't even know THAT!] using all the "wrong positions". She used her
> ear and got through the exercise even though she didn't know an Ab
> scale. You can be sure that when she does eventually learn the scale,
> she'll appreciate having that knowledge that much more!!
>
> [On the other hand, if you want to keep up with John Coltrane or
> Chris Potter, you better 'shed your altered pentatonics and know your
> modes based on the melodic minor scale....in all 12 keys!!]
>
> 3. One of Jamey Aebersold's best lines..."Everything you need to know
> to improvise is sitting in your record collection." Developing your
> skills requires active listening and learning to hear what you are
> listening to. Music cannot be something playing on a stereo in the
> background! Try to figure out some small part of what catches your
> interest every time you hear something you like.That includes every
> aspect...phrasing, time, articulation, note choice, sense of humor/
> surprise, sound, space. ensemble interaction....everything!!! Learn
> to hear what is around you so that you can develop the ability to
> hear what's rolling around in your head.
>
> 4. As far as routine.... About 5 years ago, I began improvising
> almost my whole routine, given certain parameters [how this works for
> me is a bit too involved to describe here briefly]. For advice on
> that concept, I also recommend Sam Burtis' "The American Trombone".
> That's a great resource for this idea. Recently, I've been playing
> around with creating new slurs [using "alternate" positions, not just
> bugle calls in one position!], improvising little etudes [ala
> Bordogni] and more and more playing tunes I know [or SHOULD know!!]
> in multiple keys. Reading music and playing etudes and other written
> out pieces fits into my scheme, but in order to develop my ears, I
> like to occasionally work independently of a set routine. You must be
> allow yourself to be curious and even a bit bold with how you think
> of how you practice everything. I have found benefits from playing a
> set routine for periods of time, but if you are really interested in
> improvising, you need to assume the role of an improvisor...in all
> areas of your playing!!
>
> 5. A big part of the real practice of  [as opposed to "practicing"]
> improvisation needs to be improvising to some extent with other real
> humans. Play-alongs and Band-In-A-Box are fantastic resources, but
> the benefits derived from them is somewhat limited. Nothing beats
> doing something in real time with real humans!! Find people you like
> to play with [at your skill level or better whenever you can] and  
> DO IT!
>
> 6. Developing your technique will help expand your abilities to
> express yourself...or it won't. Technical development is useful for
> how it allows you to play more challenging music and play for longer
> stretches of time [as well as improvising sound and execution].
> However, empty technique serves no real musical purpose. It has to
> mean something in order to be useful. Certain types of music require
> certain levels of technique, but it is too easy to hide behind scales
> and patterns without really making any music. [I know...I've done it!]
>
> Improvisation, as I said is MANY things to many people--as well it
> should! Your routine itself can become what you improvise, not just a
> "part" of it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Alex Iles
> ---------------------------------------------
> On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Oscar Utterström wrote:
>
>>
>> Here are some questions for you improvisers out there:
>>
>> - What material(s) do you use to develop your improvisation skills
>> (such as Crook, Bergonzi, Neumeister etc.)?
>>
>> - Do you incorporate improvisation as part of your daily routine?
>> If so, what do you work on? Standards, licks, progressions, free,
>> etc.?
>>
>> Happy New Year!
>>
>> Oscar Utterström
>> Nashville, TN
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Står karriären still? Låt någon annan hitta drömjobbet åt dig!
>> http://msn.jobbguiden.se/jobseeker/resumes/postresumenew/
>> postresumestart.aspx?sc_cmp2=JS_INT_SEMSN_NLPCV
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at samford.edu
>> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at samford.edu
> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l

Dr. J. Wayne Dyess
Professor of Trombone
and Director of Jazz Studies
P. O. Box 10044
Lamar University-Beaumont, Texas 77710
Visit our alumni jazz band website @
http://www.ndotex.com