[Trombone-l] Calling all musicologists... slightly off topic...

[thetubameister@adelphia.net]

That's easy - the weeker or less resonant tones of the C Ophicleide would be reinforced by stronger tones (ones which are closer to the bell) of the Bb, and the other way around.  Mostly useful in the lower ranges, not a big deal in the higher end... Explains the scoring and use of the second ophicleide very well in "Fantastique".

J.c.S.


---- Dennis Clason <dclason at nmsu.edu> wrote: 
> I know, I know ...
> 
> Because of the intonation faults and fingering quirks in the 
> instruments.  Kind of like the situation with clarinets in A and 
> clarinets in Bb.
> 
> And no, I didn't check Berlioz...
> 
> Ray Horton wrote:
> > That is great information, Howard.
> >
> >
> > The Berlioz _Treatise on Instrumentation_, which includes sections on 
> > both ophicleide and tuba. can be read or DLd at the IMSLP site at :
> >
> >
> > http://imslp.org/
> >
> >
> > Look for Berlioz under composers, or look under "books."
> >
> >
> > This is a great book.  The version here is the one in English with the 
> > additions by R. Strauss (denoted by the squiggles on the side), which 
> > are also quite informative
> >
> >
> > Short answer - Berlioz's primary tuba is in F. 
> >
> >
> > Here is a quiz question -  the answer can be found in the ophicleide 
> > section of the book: 
> >
> >
> > Why did Berlioz say he often wrote for two ophicleides in two different 
> > keys?
> >
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> >
> >
> > Howard Weiner wrote:
> >   
> >> At 11:49 11.08.2008 -0700, thetubameister at adelphia.net wrote:
> >>   
> >>     
> >>> Okay, I'm suddenly unsure about something I've always been sure of :-)
> >>>
> >>> On wikipedia, I read that Berlioz had at some later point rescored 
> >>> the Symphonie Fantastique for two tubas instead of ophicleides.  I 
> >>> was aware that he changed an earlier vbersion with a serpent to two 
> >>> ophicleides, and my understanding was that Berlioz had never used 
> >>> tube without an ophicleide also present.  I was also pretty darn 
> >>> sure that he had okayed the _use_ of a tuba for the second 
> >>> ophicleide part, but not for both.
> >>>
> >>> Who's right?  And is the tuba being refered to one of the "french" 
> >>> high c instruments or some saxhorn variant of the larger pitches...
> >>>     
> >>>       
> >> Second question first: Unfortunately, I don't what kind of tuba is 
> >> meant, although I can imagine it was some sort of Saxhorn.
> >>
> >> As to the main question:
> >> Here an excerpt from the Introduction to "Hector Berlioz New Edition 
> >> of the Complete Works" vol. 16, Symphonie fantastique,  ed. Nicholas 
> >> Temperley (1972):
> >>
> >> "Instrumentation
> >> ...
> >> Ophicleides -- In the autograph there is only one ophicleide part. 
> >> ... In [movement] V it is joined at the Dies irae by a serpent in Bb. 
> >> In ADir [autograph directions for performance: 'A single sheet of 
> >> 30-stave music paper, with writing by Berlioz on one side.'] Berlioz 
> >> directed that 'if the church serpent plays out of tune, as most of 
> >> them do, an ophicleide will be more suitable'. P [printed full score 
> >> (Paris, 1845)], PO [printed orchestral parts (Paris, 1845)] and APO 
> >> [autograph additions and corrections in PO] allot the second part to 
> >> an ophicleide in Bb, and give it music to play in [movement] IV as 
> >> well as V. The 1st ophicleide is in C in all sources...
> >>          In AP2 [autograph corrections to printed score of Jan. 
> >> 1845], P3 [printed score, 1846] the words 'or tuba' were added to the 
> >> 2nd ophicleide stave, ... In a letter to Hogarth dated 4 May 1853 in 
> >> which he lists 'auxiliary instruments' required for the symphony, 
> >> only one ophicleide is mentioned, and no tuba."
> >>
> >> So, J.c., be unsure no more  ;-)
> >>
> >> Howard
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Howard Weiner
> >> h.weiner at online.de
> >> http://howard-weiner.de/
> >>
> >> Tosca jumped to a conclusion.  
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>   
> >>     
> >
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> >   
> 
> -- 
> --
> Dennis L. Clason, Ph.D.
> University Statistics Center
> New Mexico State University
> Las Cruces, New Mexico
> 
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