[Trombone-l] Calling all musicologists... slightly off topic...

[Dennis Clason]

I know, I know ...

Because of the intonation faults and fingering quirks in the 
instruments.  Kind of like the situation with clarinets in A and 
clarinets in Bb.

And no, I didn't check Berlioz...

Ray Horton wrote:
> That is great information, Howard.
>
>
> The Berlioz _Treatise on Instrumentation_, which includes sections on 
> both ophicleide and tuba. can be read or DLd at the IMSLP site at :
>
>
> http://imslp.org/
>
>
> Look for Berlioz under composers, or look under "books."
>
>
> This is a great book.  The version here is the one in English with the 
> additions by R. Strauss (denoted by the squiggles on the side), which 
> are also quite informative
>
>
> Short answer - Berlioz's primary tuba is in F. 
>
>
> Here is a quiz question -  the answer can be found in the ophicleide 
> section of the book: 
>
>
> Why did Berlioz say he often wrote for two ophicleides in two different 
> keys?
>
>
> Raymond Horton
>
>
> Howard Weiner wrote:
>   
>> At 11:49 11.08.2008 -0700, thetubameister at adelphia.net wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Okay, I'm suddenly unsure about something I've always been sure of :-)
>>>
>>> On wikipedia, I read that Berlioz had at some later point rescored 
>>> the Symphonie Fantastique for two tubas instead of ophicleides.  I 
>>> was aware that he changed an earlier vbersion with a serpent to two 
>>> ophicleides, and my understanding was that Berlioz had never used 
>>> tube without an ophicleide also present.  I was also pretty darn 
>>> sure that he had okayed the _use_ of a tuba for the second 
>>> ophicleide part, but not for both.
>>>
>>> Who's right?  And is the tuba being refered to one of the "french" 
>>> high c instruments or some saxhorn variant of the larger pitches...
>>>     
>>>       
>> Second question first: Unfortunately, I don't what kind of tuba is 
>> meant, although I can imagine it was some sort of Saxhorn.
>>
>> As to the main question:
>> Here an excerpt from the Introduction to "Hector Berlioz New Edition 
>> of the Complete Works" vol. 16, Symphonie fantastique,  ed. Nicholas 
>> Temperley (1972):
>>
>> "Instrumentation
>> ...
>> Ophicleides -- In the autograph there is only one ophicleide part. 
>> ... In [movement] V it is joined at the Dies irae by a serpent in Bb. 
>> In ADir [autograph directions for performance: 'A single sheet of 
>> 30-stave music paper, with writing by Berlioz on one side.'] Berlioz 
>> directed that 'if the church serpent plays out of tune, as most of 
>> them do, an ophicleide will be more suitable'. P [printed full score 
>> (Paris, 1845)], PO [printed orchestral parts (Paris, 1845)] and APO 
>> [autograph additions and corrections in PO] allot the second part to 
>> an ophicleide in Bb, and give it music to play in [movement] IV as 
>> well as V. The 1st ophicleide is in C in all sources...
>>          In AP2 [autograph corrections to printed score of Jan. 
>> 1845], P3 [printed score, 1846] the words 'or tuba' were added to the 
>> 2nd ophicleide stave, ... In a letter to Hogarth dated 4 May 1853 in 
>> which he lists 'auxiliary instruments' required for the symphony, 
>> only one ophicleide is mentioned, and no tuba."
>>
>> So, J.c., be unsure no more  ;-)
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard Weiner
>> h.weiner at online.de
>> http://howard-weiner.de/
>>
>> Tosca jumped to a conclusion.  
>>
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>>
>>   
>>     
>
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-- 
--
Dennis L. Clason, Ph.D.
University Statistics Center
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces, New Mexico