[Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music

[Keith Marr]

Ed Solomon of the British Trombone Society wrote and article about the 
trombone parts in Haydn's Creation which appears on the BTS website.

The link is www.trombone-society.org.uk/resources/articles/creation.php

Cheers!

Keith in Bb/F/D
Bass Trombone
St Albans Symphony Orchestra
North Herts Big Band

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Horton" <rayhorton at insightbb.com>
To: "Phil Brink" <basstrb3 at comcast.net>
Cc: "John Cather" <John at CatherMusic.com>; <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music


> We've had this discussion before on this list.  Howard gave the expert
> opinion that the third part on Haydn _Creation_ was written for a Bb
> trombone.  The low "valve" notes were played as "falsett" or faked notes.
>
>
> Ray Horton
> Bass Trombonist
> Louisville Orchestra
>
>
> Phil Brink wrote:
>
>> Except Haydn wrote a pedal B flat for his "bass" trombone! Wha'?
>>
>> Phil Brink
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Cather" <John at CatherMusic.com>
>> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music
>>
>>
>>
>>> Interesting, Didn't these composers write for bass trombone that
>>> played below low F? All of these composers died before an extra valve
>>> on trombone was in common use. Mozart died long before valves were
>>> invented. The Haydn Creation is the only one I remember that hits low
>>> D and C. Haydn certainly didn't have valves on his trombones, so he
>>> had at least an F bass for this.  But for the others, so far as I can
>>> remember, a Bb would have been an easier choice. As to exactly what
>>> instrument these composers wrote for on any given piece, I don't know
>>> of a definitive source. We have definitive sources on what instrument
>>> s were in common use in certain areas like the G-bass in England. I
>>> personally think .547 bore tenors used on most of these composers is
>>> more appropriate than the monster .562 modern bass- cannon we like to
>>> use now. Also much smaller instruments for tenor and alto.
>>>
>>> my2cents.
>>> John Cather
>>>
>>>
>>>> Howard,
>>>>
>>>> The point I'm making is regardless of what the instruments are
>>>> labeled, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert were all writing for
>>>> the same Bb instrument, which is a tenor bass, not a true bass
>>>> trombone.  I still refer to the part affectionately as bass
>>>> trombone because that is my instrument in the orchestra, and even
>>>> though I try to have a lighter, more delicate tonal concept when I
>>>> play pieces by these composers I play them on my .562 bore (tenor)
>>>> bass.  I know some bass trombonists who prefer to play pieces by
>>>> these composers on .547 large bore tenors.
>>>>
>>>> I understood the original question to be if pieces like the
>>>> Schubert Mass in G would have used trombones to accompany the
>>>> choir, so I was also considering his masses in Ab and Eb, which do
>>>> have trombones.  All I'm saying is that there would not have been a
>>>> section of trombones playing written orchestral parts while another
>>>> section of trombones accompanied the choral parts.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly, whether or not there are orchestral parts written,
>>>> trombones could be and were used to accompany voices, just not two
>>>> sections doing both at the same time.  Perhaps I read too much into
>>>> the question and should not have considered pieces that already
>>>> have parts written for trombones.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
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