[Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music

[Raymond Horton]

We've had this discussion before on this list.  Howard gave the expert 
opinion that the third part on Haydn _Creation_ was written for a Bb 
trombone.  The low "valve" notes were played as "falsett" or faked notes.


Ray Horton
Bass Trombonist
Louisville Orchestra


Phil Brink wrote:

> Except Haydn wrote a pedal B flat for his "bass" trombone! Wha'?
>
> Phil Brink
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Cather" <John at CatherMusic.com>
> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music
>
>
>   
>> Interesting, Didn't these composers write for bass trombone that  
>> played below low F? All of these composers died before an extra valve  
>> on trombone was in common use. Mozart died long before valves were  
>> invented. The Haydn Creation is the only one I remember that hits low  
>> D and C. Haydn certainly didn't have valves on his trombones, so he  
>> had at least an F bass for this.  But for the others, so far as I can  
>> remember, a Bb would have been an easier choice. As to exactly what  
>> instrument these composers wrote for on any given piece, I don't know  
>> of a definitive source. We have definitive sources on what instrument  
>> s were in common use in certain areas like the G-bass in England. I  
>> personally think .547 bore tenors used on most of these composers is  
>> more appropriate than the monster .562 modern bass- cannon we like to  
>> use now. Also much smaller instruments for tenor and alto.
>>
>> my2cents.
>> John Cather
>>
>>     
>>> Howard,
>>>
>>> The point I'm making is regardless of what the instruments are  
>>> labeled, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert were all writing for  
>>> the same Bb instrument, which is a tenor bass, not a true bass  
>>> trombone.  I still refer to the part affectionately as bass  
>>> trombone because that is my instrument in the orchestra, and even  
>>> though I try to have a lighter, more delicate tonal concept when I  
>>> play pieces by these composers I play them on my .562 bore (tenor)  
>>> bass.  I know some bass trombonists who prefer to play pieces by  
>>> these composers on .547 large bore tenors.
>>>
>>> I understood the original question to be if pieces like the  
>>> Schubert Mass in G would have used trombones to accompany the  
>>> choir, so I was also considering his masses in Ab and Eb, which do  
>>> have trombones.  All I'm saying is that there would not have been a  
>>> section of trombones playing written orchestral parts while another  
>>> section of trombones accompanied the choral parts.
>>>
>>> Clearly, whether or not there are orchestral parts written,  
>>> trombones could be and were used to accompany voices, just not two  
>>> sections doing both at the same time.  Perhaps I read too much into  
>>> the question and should not have considered pieces that already  
>>> have parts written for trombones.
>>>
>>> James
>>>       
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