[Trombone-l] trombones and choral music

[John Cather]

"Pedal Bb" is just called low Bb on an Eb or D bass. It's just a note  
on the horn. Most of Haydn is very playable on Bb tenor and may well  
have been played on that by most of his musicians, but there is no  
proof that it was intended by Haydn to be played on Bb. It's all  
speculation. A modern tenor would give a much more appropriate sound  
than a modern Bb bass in my opinion.

Cheers,
John Cather

On May 1, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Phil Brink wrote:

> Except Haydn wrote a pedal B flat for his "bass" trombone! Wha'?
>
> Phil Brink
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cather"  
> <John at CatherMusic.com>
> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l trombones and choral music
>
>
>> Interesting, Didn't these composers write for bass trombone that   
>> played below low F? All of these composers died before an extra  
>> valve  on trombone was in common use. Mozart died long before  
>> valves were  invented. The Haydn Creation is the only one I  
>> remember that hits low  D and C. Haydn certainly didn't have  
>> valves on his trombones, so he  had at least an F bass for this.   
>> But for the others, so far as I can  remember, a Bb would have  
>> been an easier choice. As to exactly what  instrument these  
>> composers wrote for on any given piece, I don't know  of a  
>> definitive source. We have definitive sources on what instrument   
>> s were in common use in certain areas like the G-bass in England.  
>> I  personally think .547 bore tenors used on most of these  
>> composers is  more appropriate than the monster .562 modern bass-  
>> cannon we like to  use now. Also much smaller instruments for  
>> tenor and alto.
>> my2cents.
>> John Cather
>>> Howard,
>>>
>>> The point I'm making is regardless of what the instruments are   
>>> labeled, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert were all writing  
>>> for  the same Bb instrument, which is a tenor bass, not a true  
>>> bass  trombone.  I still refer to the part affectionately as  
>>> bass  trombone because that is my instrument in the orchestra,  
>>> and even  though I try to have a lighter, more delicate tonal  
>>> concept when I  play pieces by these composers I play them on my . 
>>> 562 bore (tenor)  bass.  I know some bass trombonists who prefer  
>>> to play pieces by  these composers on .547 large bore tenors.
>>>
>>> I understood the original question to be if pieces like the   
>>> Schubert Mass in G would have used trombones to accompany the   
>>> choir, so I was also considering his masses in Ab and Eb, which  
>>> do  have trombones.  All I'm saying is that there would not have  
>>> been a  section of trombones playing written orchestral parts  
>>> while another  section of trombones accompanied the choral parts.
>>>
>>> Clearly, whether or not there are orchestral parts written,   
>>> trombones could be and were used to accompany voices, just not  
>>> two  sections doing both at the same time.  Perhaps I read too  
>>> much into  the question and should not have considered pieces  
>>> that already  have parts written for trombones.
>>>
>>> James
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