[Trombone-l] How to learn about F attachment

[Keith Marr]

As to tuning (bearing in mind I've already warmed up prior to tuning) I find 
that with my set-up (Bb/F/D dependent bass) I can comfortably tune to A with 
both valves in use. Then if the A an octave up is slightly sharp with just 
the F trigger I know I'm in tune with the oboe's note.

These days I'm using a Rath R9DST, the above tune-up routine was never 
reliable with my Holton TR181, so it would seem to vary from set-up to 
set-up.

Back on the original thread the Ostrander book is available on Hickeys list 
along with Eleizer new method for Bass Bone, which I think I'll be having a 
look at. So thanks to him for mentioning it.

Cheers!

Keith in Bb/F/D
Bass Trombone
St Albans Symphony Orchestra
North Herts Big Band

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kane" <JKBone5723 at cox.net>
To: <rc750 at earthlink.net>
Cc: "Trombone-L List" <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>; "Wayne Dyess" 
<TexasTbone at gt.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] How to learn about F attachment


>I lock the slide in first and then tune F open and then F attachment.
> This way you know they are in tune. Make all additional little
> tunings with the slide in your hand. Trigger positions and regular
> positions aren't supposed to be the same.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mar 7, 2007, at 8:38 AM, Roger Carmichael wrote:
>
>> I have a Shires double rotor where the C and the low F are in tune
>> in FIRST
>> position.   Perhaps that is a perk for buying a custom-made trombone.
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: Wayne Dyess <TexasTbone at gt.rr.com>
>>> To: Walter Barrett <walttrombone at optonline.net>
>>> Cc: Trombone-L List <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
>>> Date: 3/7/2007 12:34:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] How to learn about F attachment
>>>
>>> Actually, I don't know of any players who tune their F attachment on
>>> the C.
>>>
>>> It ain't called the "F" attachment for nuttin', ya know.  Like why is
>>> it a Bb trombone?  Do we tune best on an "A"?  I think not.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2007, at 9:26 PM, Walter Barrett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tuning the F attachment usually falls into 2 camps- tune it so 2nd
>>>> space C is in tune. (One disadvantage to this is that F in Valve 1st
>>>> is then flat, and you have to play it in 6th all the time.) The
>>>> other
>>>> camp says to tune it so that low F is in tune. The 2nd space C will
>>>> be sharp, but you can bring it down with the handslide, usually
>>>> about
>>>> 1/2-3/4 inch out from regular 1st. The disadvantage to this
>>>> tuning is
>>>> that low C (2nd leger) is more sharp than when you tune the other
>>>> way, and has to be lipped down even more. (That low C is usually
>>>> sharp, no matter which way you tune it. It's just more sharp with
>>>> the
>>>> F in tune method.)
>>>>
>>>> I like the low F in tune method, myself. I find myself wanting the
>>>> availability of F in 1st AND 6th.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Walter Barrett
>>>
>>> ========
>>>
>>> But yeah, the "C" will be somewhat sharp.  Overtone series... same
>>> reason the 2nd line "F" is sharp on the Bb side of the horn.  Duh.
>>>
>>> Al Lube laid out the overtone series great (a fine teacher I had at
>>> UofH).  All numbers.  Physics, but we won't go there.  Acoustics...
>>> whatever you want to call it.
>>>
>>> 1 - fundamental.  Gotta start somewhere.  This pup better be in
>>> tune!  Pedal Bb.
>>> 2 - the octave above.  Another "in-tune" note.
>>> 3 - here is the F in the staff.  It's sharp.  Note the odd number.
>>> 4 - another Bb.   Another note "in-tune."  Note the pattern of the
>>> Bb's and the numbers
>>> 5 - the D above the staff.  Flat.  Another odd number.
>>> 6 - the F above that.  An even number, but divide it in half and you
>>> get the 3.  Also sharp!
>>> 7 - Do we really want to go there?  VERY flat.  Rarely do we want to
>>> play the Ab in 1st.  Avoid it babe.
>>> 8 - The high Bb.  Another note "in-tune", if we aren't pinching to
>>> get it.
>>>
>>> 1,2,4,8 = Bb's, in tune.
>>> 3,6 = F (and sharp)
>>> 5,7 = flat and very flat.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's all a numbers game.
>>>
>>> Translate those numbers to the F attachment, beginning with the "F"
>>> as your fundamental, and you find the C is sharp.  It's just gonna be
>>> that way.  But mercy -- don't TUNE the thing to C.
>>>
>>> That's another topic of discussion since I hear a LOT of bands tuning
>>> their brass to "F".  In my book, that's just flat out wrong and their
>>> bands don't play well in tune.  Can't imagine why.
>>>
>>> It's a Bb Trombone!!!
>>> Sometimes with an F attachment.
>>>
>>> So tune it that way.
>>>
>>> My two cents.
>>> Rant over.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>> --Wayne Dyess
>>>
>>>
>>>
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