[Trombone-l] Coffee talk...

Wed Jul 4 11:14:04 CDT 2007

There's the answer...

Why show up and torture yourself every Tuesday evening?

I enjoy playing with these folks because I enjoy the music and  enjoy
the people.  None of us are "GREAT", but we seem to get the job done
enough to warrant dinner here and there, a wedding reception here and
there and even step out to do "featuring ... " gigs from time to time.

~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= 

john burton
Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone
Kanawha Valley Community Band / Slide-by-Slide
South Charleston, West Virginia

-----Original Message-----
From: tom at sagamorebenefits.com [mailto:tom at sagamorebenefits.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:24 AM
To: John Burton; trombone-l at server5.samford.edu
Subject: RE: [Trombone-l] Coffee talk...

It's a little hard for me to believe that you would be willing to show
up to a rehearsal every Tuesday evening to play anything if the people
you were working with made it not so fun!

I play in many different and diverse groups and what I said was fun has
become the most important thing.  Obviously if I had my choice I'd play
everyday with great musicians playing great music!  But my Tuesdays
became bogged down with what was becoming a painful experience until the
two problems went away, and even though they were great musicians and
have been replaced with mediocre musicians, it's suddenly more fun.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: John Burton [mailto:John.Burton at JohnBurton.org]
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 8:07 AM
To: trombone-l at server5.samford.edu
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Coffee talk...

I would ALWAYS prefer to play with players a notch or two better than I,
but I'm not sure I well I'd play with the Bill Reichenbach's of this
world, and therefore would playing with someone that much better than I
be 'fun'?

But playing with others who are better than you by a bit brings you up
to their level, it allows you to grow, learn new things.  Awh shucks,
there're only so many places you can put your slide, so it's not so much
the raw *technical* things I learn, it's the phrasing, the breathing,
perhaps a better position to play that one note (I remember learning
about low "C" in long second with the second rotor only pulled .. What
an epiphany!)..  

So .. Good music, better players.

Secondly, I'd prefer to play with folks just a little lower than I for
exactly the same reasons as listed above, only reversed.

While it's always nice to get paid, and personal believe causes me to
eschew unions in any disguise, the sheer joy of playing good music (my
definition of good music .. Whatever that might be) with folks just a
little better or just a little less experienced is just plain fun.  And
in these cases, mediocrity DOES pay off, and DOES give you that little
zing!  

As always, your mileage may vary...

~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= 

john burton
Bach 50B3 Bass Trombone
Kanawha Valley Community Band / Slide-by-Slide South Charleston, West
Virginia

> -----Original Message-----
> From: trombone-l-bounces at maillists.samford.edu
> [mailto:trombone-l-bounces at maillists.samford.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick

> & Lisa Bates
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:19 PM
> To: mikesuter at adelphia.net; trombone-l at server5.samford.edu
> Cc: trombone-l-request at server5.samford.edu
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Coffee talk...
> 
> Guess we were getting a little sidetracked by the time I posted, don't

> see anything in your post I disagree with. One of the last things I 
> said was I LIKE being the worst player in the group! Good musicians 
> any day, preferably with good music too.
> Patrick
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mikesuter at adelphia.net>
> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> Cc: <trombone-l-request at server5.samford.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Coffee talk...
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > Alisha asked a simple question with no caveat. I answered
> with complete
> honestly. I would rather play bad music with good musicians than vice 
> versa.
> Please note I made no mention of professional standing, union 
> membership, how much or little fun I'd have at said gig, or the amount

> of money that would be in my pocket when I left. I just stated "good" 
> musicians.
> >
> > I'll stand by that.
> >
> > Now, here's where I always get in trouble. That's because
> some of you feel
> honor bound to defend mediocrity (BTW, I'm not attributing the quotes 
> I use because I want it clear I'm not attacking the writer):
> >
> > <<Playing music with people you like is so much more enjoyable.>>
> >
> > Not necessarily. Playing a piece of music the best it can
> be played -
> without the "for a bunch of ..." added - is a huge rush. One that 
> mediocre players never experience. Sorry, but it's true.
> > The best a mediocre player can attain is mediocrity.
> > Does this mean I don't respect mediocre players? NO! It
> means I see them
> for what they are.
> > Does this mean I don't play with mediocre players? NO! It
> means that I
> prefer playing with top-level players.
> > Does this mean I do not or cannot have fun playing with
> mediocre players?
> NO! It means I alter my expectations in these situations.
> > And maybe my outlook is skewed. When you've been fortunate
> enough to be in
> good/great situations all your life, mediocrity is a drag. 
> But this doesn't
> mean my message is wrong. I am telling the truth as I see it.
> >
> > <<As I get older fun becomes more important ...>>
> >
> > Same here. But for me it means finding opportunities to
> play with only the
> best players. For me this has meant starting my own band
> (Slidewerke) and
> recording it (The Geezer Strikes! American Creative Music acm0001).
> >
> > I guess my definition of 'fun' differs from most of you
> all. The top of my
> list is playing great music with good players. Next is playing any 
> level of music with good players. The two bottom on my list are 
> playing good music with bad players and playing bad music with bad 
> players.
> >
> > I'm not writing this to be controversial. And I'm not being
> mean spirited.
> I hope you all understand that I LOVE everything about the trombone 
> world - including the players. But SOMEBODY has to tell the truth.
> Otherwise we
> cannot progress.
> >
> > There's no shame in being a mediocre, or weak, or bad, or
> weekend, or
> whatever level player one is. But trying to re-invent it just cheapens

> all music.
> >
> > I've kept my sentences direct enough so as to hopefully not
> allow anyone
> to put words in my mouth. I mean what I've said, but nothing more and 
> nothing less. If you don't agree (I'd be amazed if you did) please 
> argue my words, not some twisted re-interpretation of them.
> >
> > With Respect, Mike Suter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at maillists.samford.edu
> > http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
> >
> 
> 
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