[Trombone-l] 57 and Thinking About My First Double-Rotor (neValve) Bass Trombone

[Elliott Moxley]

Have you tried out the Courtois? Eric Hand at Peninsula Music in Palo Alto
stocks them, they are very reasonably priced and include a super-nice Bam
Classic case. I just bought one from him, sight unseen, and while I need to
get used to it (read: how to play it; I have dabbled with the bass a bit in
the past, but I'm a tenor player) my initial impression is good. They have
large bells, but are well balanced and have lightweight slides which make
them very manageable. There are variables, even with the same base model #,
so it's worth trying several. Some have removable leadpipes and a curved
hand brace, some have Hagman's, some have the F valve in the front and some
have the F valve in the rear, and some have removable bells, etc. - lots of
choices. I got the 500B with dual independent rotarys, 10"12 bell, and the
"Prestige Opera" removable bell, + regular (LW?) brass slide. Eventually I
hope to trade for a 9 1/2" which he didn't have. The sound seems a little
on the light side for a bass, at least compared to a Bach, not a bad thing.
It is very easy to play in a singing style, i.e. Rochut excercises,
compared with my Bach 42. Feels like a large hippo gracefully dancing
ballet. The valves are free blowing and very open. The Gb lever is
adjustable, and I was able to make it comfortable for my smallish hands.
Again, the balance of the horn helps. And I can get a Bb in tune with the
tuning slide out +/- 1" using the stock Courtois MP. This was a 50th
birthday present to myself, and while I know I'll never be a "real" bass
'bonist, my motive was to use it as a form of excercise, as Tim pointed
out. I probably wouldn't stick with a gym, but playing this thing is a
blast and I'm getting a great workout at the same time. I hope that
eventually my 42 will feel like a slide kazoo! 
 
Courtois had a booth at NABBA this past April, which is where I first tried
them. The company was recently acquired by Buffet-Crampon, and they are
serious about making quality affordable instruments. The latest line is
supposed to be modeled after the Bachs, and the model #s reflect this.
(i.e. O42, or something close to that)
 
- Sue


> [Original Message]
> From: <t.stone at att.net>
> To: <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
> Date: 8/21/2007 5:25:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] 57 and Thinking About My First Double-Rotor
(neValve) Bass Trombone
>
> Hi List,
>
> There certainly seems to be a lot of us 57ishes out there tooting away on
our trombones! I don't know about the rest of you, but my doctor says that
playing the trombone is one of the best all-around exercises that one can
do. It helps the breathing, the muscles (arms, upper and lower back, neck
and especially the abdominal muscles), circulation, brain and, most
importantly, the psyche. So let's all "Keep on Tootin'"! Now for a little
update.
> I've done some homework and now know the difference between in-line and
stacked valves (so far I'm partial to the stacked B-flat/F/D) and the
various valve types (rotor, axial flow, etc), and read a bunch of articles
in past issues of the ITA Journal about the various set-ups, their
variations and how they play, and most of Doug Yeo's website. Then I went
to Ferguson Music the other day and tried a few of the horns they had
there. Let me just say that if you live her in SoCal or come to visit, stop
by Ferguson Music and experience the shear joy of what it's like to walk to
a trombone store. Trombones everywhere! You look around like a kid in a toy
store -- you just don't know where to start! And the guys there are great.
Steve Ferguson, Bob Coomber, Noah Gladstone, the trio of trombone
specialists; Dylan Hart, the french horn fancier and Michael Davis, the
trumpet guru, are just super. They can answer (or make up answers to) any
question you might have and help you make those reall
> y tough (yea, right) decisions. So, I tried a Conn 62H, a Kanstul 1662, a
Willson 511TA and, of course, the Kanstul 1670 single valve just because,
well, you know. The Conn played nice and had that great Conn sound, but the
double trigger notes (low C and B) were very stuffy and difficult for me to
get a good sound on. The Kanstul 1662 played very well, with the double
trigger notes having a nice big, fat sound and a lot less stuffy. The
Willson was okay and the overall response was good in all registers. The
golden colored titanium nitride coated inner slides was an interesting
touch and should attract a lot of chicks. The single valve Kanstul 1670
played the best off all. Nice and open and free blowing with or without the
old E-pull. Love that horn, but that's just me -- you all know where I came
from. I wonder if Kanstul makes an open wrap stacked version of this horn.
Oh, well! There was a Shires Artist Custom Bass there, similar to the one
that, I believe, Bob Sanders plays. I
>  almost picked it up -- until I was told the price, without a case! I
guess I'm just too old school. I figure if I'm going to pay that much for a
horn, they could a least include a case. I would have a hard time
justifying an expenditure of that magnitude to my lovely wife in any event,
but then to tell her the case was extra? I would never hear the end of
that. BTW -- how do the rest of feel about this "case not included"  trend?
Moving along, I've only had a few opportunities to play the Getzen 1062FDR
that I have on loan from a good friend of mine. I played it this past
Sunday night with the Jimmy McConnell Big Band at Stevie's Creole Bar &
Grill in Encino (CA), and last night at an LA Winds rehearsal. I really
like the horn. It's free blowing, similar to my old Holton TR-169, responds
well and has a great sound (different to my ears -- duh, I wonder why) and
the double trigger notes pop out pretty good, although the low B's tend to
be a little too stuffy when played forte or pu
> shed to fortissimo. Because of the way the horn is built -- it has long
bell section -- the slide is short like the 62H skide, so the positions get
farther out as go down the slide. This makes the low C almost impossible to
play in tune in flat 7th no matter where you set the tuning slide on the
F-horn. So low C's can only really be played in flat 3rd, with a loss of
some the edge you'd get in flat 7th on the F -horn. You need this edge, I
feel, in big band work and in some modern symphonic works-- either
orchestral or symphonic wind bands. I do not agree with this trend towards
large pizza-pan bells and slide bores. They take away the innate beauty of
the mainstream bass trombone sound and make it sound more like a
tubaboneaphone or a baribonafonium or some devil-hybrid like that. Not a
pretty or even a nice sound. I probably won't be real popular for saying
that out loud, especially with you young guys out there. But there a lot of
us (young an older) who think this is totally un
> acceptable, but just won't come out and say it for fear of -- I don't
know, whatever! And before anyone starts pointing out that the 1062 has a
duel bore slide (.562/.578), let me say that I know that, and  if ever
decide to buy one it will be with the straight .562 slide from the 1052
wich does fit both horns. 'Nuf said. Moving on. The other issue with the
Getzen is the intonation. The horn plays extremely sharp. I've played two
of these 1062's now (only the one I've mentioned so far in any groups,
though), and both play sharp. Sunday night and last night I had to push the
main tunning slide out almost to its full length to get 1st position B-flat
in tune. Bass trombonists Morris Repass, a long-time Local 47 LA pro who
plays euphonium in the LA Winds was telling me last night that some horns
are, for whatever reason, just built that way and that he has personally
played a few trombones that were sharp like that. Then I have another
friend who also has a 1062 like the one I have on
> ly an earlier 1997 model, and says it plays in tune just fine (BTW --
this was the same friend who kept telling me, after playing my Elkhart Conn
72H, that the problem I am having with it is all in my mind and that I'm
crazy). Have any of you who have played Getzen 1062FDR's experienced any
strange intonation or other issues with them? My inquiring mind wants to
know. And please keep your insights and suggestions regarding the entire
issue of switching to (or adding) a double valve bass trombone coming. I
need all the help I can get, and the dialog recorded and archived here will
be invaluable to future generations of young trombonists. Thanks to all for
the input.
>
> Tim Stone
>
> PS -- Happy 62 Phil. Keep on Tootin'!
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