[Trombone-l] Bartok gliss question revisited

Fri Apr 27 16:05:53 CDT 2007

I've played it a number of times over the years, each time except the 
last with a break in the gliss, but each time was better because I made 
some adjustments in the hardware to make it better.  Finally, with the 
way that our tuba player showed me that I've described, I (we) made it 
perfect. 

None of the times did the CONDUCTOR complain or even comment.  I wasn't 
playing it for the conductor.  I'm not in this business just to please 
the conductor.  I was making it better to please myself.  If I sit 
around all day, all my life,  waiting for conductor approval, I'd go 
insane.  I have gotten comments from others in the orchestra when it was 
good, especially the last time, because that was the best of all.  (I 
did have one person volunteer, in years past, that he could hear the 
break, like I really wanted or needed to hear that!)   But I try to play 
it perfectly for myself.  If that's obsessing, then so it is.  But it's 
easy to play it perfectly this way, so I do it.  And it doesn't cost 
thousands for another horn. 

I doubt that this method would work for the Mandarin.  The times I've 
played the Mandarin, I've done only the suite, and the long gliss's 
aren't in the suite.   For Mandarin I'd probably go back to two separate 
long valves (F and flat E) and a break.  But I'd see if the tuba player 
was free, and game, first!

RBH

ALEX ILES wrote:
> Hey all ...
>
> I realize this debate/discussion is about as old as the piece itself  
> and it's commendable that you guys would go to so much trouble to  
> accommodate what Bartok wrote, but, the bottom line to me: it's just  
> an effect!
>
> Andy Skaggs summed it up...[in case you missed it!]
>
>   
>>  I would have a couple of different versions of the
>> gliss ready to go before rehearsal in case the conductor asks you  
>> to try
>> it another way, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.  In my
>> experience this is one of those things that we trombonists obsess  
>> over,
>> and most conductors seem not to notice or care one way or the other.
>>     
>
>
> Is it REALLY worth buying a horn for one piece that you play every  
> few years given that you even HAVE a full time orchestra gig? Don't  
> you think you could spend that money on something like attending a  
> couple brass seminars [including airfare!!]... or 20 private lessons  
> with a heavy player/teacher... or, better yet commission a new solo  
> bass bone piece that you can oversee and premiere--hopefully with-OUT  
> a B-F gliss!?
>
> I'm just sayin'....
>
> ;-)
>
> LX
> ==============
> On Apr 27, 2007, at 11:46 AM, james meador wrote:
>
>   
>> The same gliss occurs in Miraculous Mandarin, but it occurs over  
>> and over for several measures, a gliss down and then gliss back up  
>> to the F.  I usually do for the gliss in the Concerto what I do for  
>> that one, which is nail the low B with both valves, then drop the  
>> second valve as I move the slide out a little to start the gliss up  
>> to first.  Of course, there is a subtle break, but with some  
>> practice it can sound very convincing.  Not as good as a straight,  
>> pure gliss like an F bass or Ray's or Van Haney's way could  
>> produce, but for Mandarin there is simply no other option--get an F  
>> bass or do the gliss with a subtle break.  For my taste, it is a  
>> little too prominent to get by with a fake.
>>
>> Although, I just got a funny image in my head of a tuba player  
>> reaching behind a bass trombone player yanking his tuning slide in  
>> and out.  :)
>>
>> Ray, I will try your way this time around and let you know what  
>> happens.  I'm dying to get a real gliss out!!
>>
>> James
>>
>> ======================
>> James N. Meador, Bass Trombone
>> Orquesta Sinfónica de Yucatán
>> +52-999-221-5845 cell
>> +52-999-195-1144 home
>> jamesmeador at hotmail.com
>>
>> From: Keith Marr <Mail at gothicway.fsnet.co.uk>
>> To: "Trombone-L" <TROMBONE-L at server5.SAMFORD.EDU>, "d.sleeman"  
>> <d.sleeman at hccnet.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Bartok gliss question revisited
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:29 PM
>> There is a movement (think it's the second) called the Interrupted  
>> Intermezzo, which is going along blithely until Bartok suddenly  
>> changes the whole mood for a few minutes, poking fun at Lehar's  
>> Merry Widow and Shostakovitch's 7th Symphony, which were both very  
>> popular at a time when Bartok's music was viewed as "too modern" in  
>> some circles.
>>
>> There are two glissandi, one from low B up to F in the 3rd part and  
>> one from low E up to Bb in the 2nd part.
>>
>> I've only played the piece once and was most disappointed at how  
>> little of interest there is in the 3rd trombone, apart from that  
>> little 15 seconds of fame. I can't imagine it being very effective  
>> on anything other than the original F trombone (Doug Yeo has one  
>> made for him by Yamaha!) or the Thein "Bartok" trombone (buy a  
>> trombone to play just one piece?) or a Bb/F/E trombone. I was  
>> playing a Holton TR181 at the time and was able to remove the Gb  
>> extension from the second valve at the end of the first movement,  
>> play the low B on two valves and release the second valve in the  
>> course of the glissando. There's plenty of time to replace the Gb  
>> extension again for the rest of the piece. The gliss happens so  
>> quickly that I doubt if anyone would be able to discern any beak in  
>> the glissando when you release the second valve.
>>
>> Interestingly enough it occurs to me that my Rath Bb/F/D would not  
>> make such a good job of this because I haven't got any means to  
>> reducing the length of tubing on the second valve. Fingers crossed  
>> I don't need to bother playing the piece again, it was pretty  
>> boring to sit counting rests through anyway.
>>
>> It sticks in my mind that Bartok writes the same glissando for bass  
>> trombone in either Bluebeard's Castle or The Miraculous Mandarin, I  
>> can't remember which. So maybe the Thein is a good buy after all -  
>> you could use it for two pieces! :-)
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Keith in Bb/F/D
>> Bass Trombone
>> St Albans Symphony Orchestra
>> North Herts Big Band
>>
>>
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