[Trombone-l] UrineTown

Wed Sep 20 00:40:34 CDT 2006

Alex,

You are right, on all counts.

Phil

----- Original Message ----
From: ALEX ILES <alexiles at earthlink.net>
To: Josh Kane <JKBone5723 at cox.net>
Cc: List Trombone <trombone-l at server5.samford.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:39:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] UrineTown

I have not played the show, but from what it sounded like here, it 
seems like it does ask for a bass bone double [and a euphonium double].

Regardless of what was asked for, in order to protect the difference 
between the two horns...if they write trigger notes, they SHOULD pay 
for them, ESPECIALLY if the show was ORIGINALLY written as a doubling 
chair.

You seem to miss my point here, Josh. That and I guess I could have 
made it clearer.

Look at the big picture for a moment. Forget "can" or "can't"...

  If they write those notes and DON'T ask for the double, that sets a 
bad precedent. Why should we GIVE away a double OR cheat a bass bone 
player out of a gig?

Whether or not "any tenor player with an F attachment should have 
absolutely no trouble..." is not the point!!

Tenors and bass trombones are DIFFERENT instruments!!

I can tell you this...Your thinking on this would not put you in the 
good graces of many of the larger freelance communities.

One more thing...

What if the tables were turned?

Would you still feel the same way?

What if a bass bone player got called for a pit show lead book [perhaps 
you might have otherwise gotten the call!!] and he says, "Oh sure I can 
play high C's and D's on this big Bach 50B on a 1G!! I don't need to 
play tenor." After all, [to paraphrase] why shouldn't any bass player 
be equally as versed on high C's and D's on bass trombone.

I guess no need for tenor bone on that one.

LX
----------------------------------------------

On Sep 19, 2006, at 9:18 PM, Josh Kane wrote:

> The show DOES NOT ask for a bass trombone double. It has a few notes 
> in the lower register, but they are notes that any tenor player with 
> an F attachment should have absolutely no trouble with. Tenor players 
> have no trouble with the F and E below the staff nor do they have 
> trouble with the pedals, so why shouldn't they be equally as versed on 
> the other 6 notes that the trigger allows us access to?
>
> No need for a bass bone on this one.
>
> Josh
> On Sep 20, 2006, at 12:11 AM, ALEX ILES wrote:
>
>> Watch it, folks!! [especially those of you interested in playing
>> professionally!!]
>>
>> The professional freelance trombone community has traditionally gone 
>> to
>> great lengths to protect the bass bone as a double!!! Arrangers have 
>> to
>> be reminded that those notes are primarily for bass bone. This 
>> protects
>> the bass bone players [if they write those notes they should HIRE a
>> bass bone player] and it protects those tenor players who double on
>> bass bone.
>>
>> If they write trigger notes, they should pay for them.
>>
>> We have worked very hard to make sure pit shows productions respect 
>> and
>> understand the difference between tenor and bass. The "trombone
>> w/Fattachment" thing is giving away something many people before us
>> worked hard to establish and blurs the vital and important musical
>> difference between tenor and bass trombone.
>>
>> That is the main reason why studio players bring straight tenors to
>> recording sessions. If too many writers got used to seeing tenors with
>> F-attachments, they will start ASSUMING it's ok to write Eb's and D's
>> without EVER paying the double WHENEVER THEY WANT. One day, if they
>> write a REAL bass bone part, they will say, "well this other guy 
>> played
>> those notes on a tenor". The difference becomes blurred.The  bass bone
>> players suffer [not getting called for something they should be doing]
>> and tenor players lose the double.
>>
>> Also, by playing a show on one horn that was written as a doubling
>> chair,  [without realizing it, I know :-)] you are basically
>> undercutting everyone else who has played the show or will play the
>> show on two horns.
>>
>> Sure, there are a couple pit shows floating around with a Tenor
>> w/f-attachment designation....Sound of Music is one [that should pay
>> triple, IMO...you are playing horn parts, tuba parts and bass bone
>> parts!!]. But we should not GIVE IT AWAY if the show asks for a 
>> certain
>> double!!
>>
>> LX
>> ===================
>>
>>
>> On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Alisha Ard wrote:
>>
>>> My experience was the trombone/bass trombone doubling was fairly
>>> unnecessary.  Low E's and I think a couple C's are it for the bass
>>> end.  I played it all on a big tenor with an F-attachment.  The
>>> euphonium is used on just a few things - mostly slow and soft.  But
>>> there is some cute up-tempo stuff in the first act - just not too
>>> much of it.  But a great, fun show!
>>>
>>> Alisha
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:13 PM, <jkbone5723 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I played it a few months ago. Great music. I say go for it man.
>>>> It's fun. There is some real worthwile stuff in the show. I really
>>>> enjoyed it.
>>>>
>>>> Josh
>>>>
>>>> ---- Steve Carr <stevencarr at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> Has anyone played the book(trombone/bass trombone/euphonium) for
>>>>> Urinetown?
>>>>>
>>>>> I just got a call to do a local production.  I interested in doing
>>>>> the
>>>>> doubling, if the music is interesting.  However, the bread is
>>>>> low.  So I'm
>>>>> trying to get all the info I can before I decide.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Steve Carr
>>>>>
>>>>>
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