[Trombone-l] Alto Clef

[Chris Tune]

Seems like different environments and different "staff arrangers" (for lack 
of a better analogy) may have their own conventions in using clefs.  If you 
looked at Tommy Pederson's book you would really only see Bass Clef and 
Tenor Clef.   He felt that "did the trick".  Tommy didn't like the 
"telephone pole" effect.

David Baker put his jazz solo transcriptions into what he thought was a very 
logical setup (I think it's pretty darn good, too. . .after all, even piano 
players understand this!) Bass Clef and Treble Clef.  What a concept!! 
Really only need a ledger line for middle C.   Of course Adolf Sax had 
another way of thinking.  He thought about the need to learn fingerings.  I 
guess the Alto Sax and the Tenor Sax have pretty much the same fingering 
given the same written note on the page (I dunno. . .I must profess 
ignorance or the "reedy" area. . .from a technology angle).  And then the 
Alto makes an Eb sound and the Tenor makes a Bb sound a fourth lower than 
that and then upward to Soprano, or downward to Baritone and so on.

This is really a parallel process to the one in math that resulted in Rene 
Decartes coming up with a "Coordinates System" to allow for two dimensions 
to be mapped out and "handled" mathematically.  Before that, similar things 
had been developed, but he stands at the point in time where it all comes 
together to make a "whole".

I can see how musical "tradition" called for use of the various "C" clefs. 
After all, the vocal ensemble used to have even greater prominence than it 
does now. . .and it is by no means a small area now. . .choir music is still 
a "going concern" as far as I can tell.  At least I always had a "ball" 
singing in a choir.  I did it in High School and for a few years at church. 
And there really is a tendency for voices to fall into "zones".  I'm sort of 
a second tenor / baritone voice.

I recall seeing articles or textbooks on the subject of early music notation 
and I can imagine that the systems have changed pretty radically over time. 
This whole situation, with the changing "paradigms", is a little bit like 
programming languages for computers or like sequencer software.  In various 
sequencers there is generally a "left is the beginning". . .the time is from 
left to right-paradigm.  MIDI notes are higher up vertically if the pitches 
are higher (duh!).  And then we fold in the analogy of a multi-track tape 
unit, and we have "track" strips up and down the sequencer "page". . .spice 
up the thing with the audio "mixing console" paradigm and we have Cubase or 
a number of other sequencers.

You can probably tell that I am fascinated by symbolism and "metaphor".  We 
have it all around us, and we really eat, sleep, and breathe it, but we 
don't really think about it that way. . .

Chris


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Horton" <rayhorton at insightbb.com>
To: "Bill Dinwiddie" <billdin at comcast.net>
Cc: "List Trombone" <TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Alto Clef


> Why do we need the C clefs?
>
>
> Short answer:  Because there are thousands of pieces of music with
> trombone parts written in alto and tenor clefs.
>
>
> In a symphony orchestra, alto clef is used very often for first rombone,
> often for second trombone (Russian composers) and occasionally for bass
> trombone (Rimsky-Korsakov and Stravinsky are the only I remember).
>
>
> Treble clef at concert pitch crops up occasionally, also.  Hey - but we
> almost never have to transpose, like the trumpets and horns do all the
> time!   (Pines of Rome buccini parts excepted)
>
>
> Raymond Horton
> Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra
>
>
> Bill Dinwiddie wrote:
>
>>Mike Irwin said:
>>
>>"But I have never seen or heard of an alto clef."
>>
>>Mike, the alto clef is one of a group of clefs called "C Clefs". That is,
>>the line where the two parts of the clef meet is always the note C. The 
>>two
>>most common C clefs are: the Tenor clef (where the line that would be the 
>>D
>>line in treble clef) is middle C on the piano. The other common C clef is
>>the Alto clef (where the line that would be the B line in treble clef) is
>>middle C. There are other C clefs too: mezzo-soprano clef, and I forget 
>>the
>>other ones. Hopefully, neither of us will ever see another C clef other 
>>than
>>the ones I have just talked about.
>>Alto clef is sometimes used for the 1st trombone part in a symphony
>>orchestra parts and Tenor clef is often used for the 2nd trombone. The 
>>bass
>>clef that we are used to seeing is actually part of the "F clef" system,
>>where the two dots tell us what line is the note F. I believe there is a 
>>an
>>F clef called the baritone clef. Maybe we can ask one of our
>>orchestra-oriented brethren to expand upon the clef system and why we need
>>to use it anyway.
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>
>>Bill Dinwiddie
>>billdin at comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Trombone-l mailing list
>>Trombone-l at maillists.samford.edu
>>http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at maillists.samford.edu
> http://maillists.samford.edu/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l