[Trombone-l] Cimbasso or tuba?

[Raymond Horton]

Yes, this is the conductor's decision, but are they making an _informed_ 
decision?   They often merely read "bass trombone" on the score and know 
nothing else, unfortunately. 


Or, even worse, with a local opera company with which I have worked, the 
decisions are made by underlings before the conductor comes to town.  
This comes up every time we play Verdi or Puccini.  The scores to these 
operas often list trombones 1, 2, 3 and "trombone basso" or, sometimes, 
"cimbasso."  I have to advise our personnel manager on the subject ahead 
of time - I just did so three days ago for an upcoming production of


The short answer "Cimbasso" doesn't answer anything, in this case.  The 
brass instrument we know as the "cimbasso" was unknown at the time of _I 
Lombardi_.  Puccini had the modern version constructed, later.


What _was_ used in the time of early Verdi was the "Russian Bassoon," 
really a wooden variety of ophecleide (or straight serpent) with a brass 
bell.  (An ophecleide was a bass keyed bugle - imagine a baritone 
saxophone played with a trombone mouthpiece.)   So, if the conductor 
cries authenticity, threaten to pull one of those out of your car!


The term "cimbasso" came to mean, over the course of the 19th century, 
whatever bass instrument was being played in the opera houses in Italy 
at the time, until Puccini's valve brass instrument.


Verdi had a long career.  He came to express preference for the 
(probably valved) contrabass trombone for his late operas, but allowed F 
tuba - not the large bombardon.


I hold that for those of us in modern orchestras without access to 
cimbassi or other valved bass trombones should stick to an F tuba for 
the fourth part on these Italian operas. 


I got stuck playing one of these parts once on a Puccini opera, 
(probably _Tosca_ I think that one has the most boring fourth part) next 
to a bass trombonist playing the third part, and we had no tonal 
contrast between us at all   The tuba player sat at home that week, with 
his F tuba that would have fit the bill MUCH better.   Yes, the 
trombonists could/should have been playing smaller horns, but they 
didn't, and it still wouldn't have helped that much.  There needs to be 
a blend, yes, but a contrast, when those low fourth parts get going.  
Perhaps three small-bore valve trombones plus a bass trombone could 
work, three trombones plus an F tuba is still the practical best for 
best musical results. 


The musical result is what it is about.

------------------------------------

See this web debate on this subject among trombinsits, some of whom are 
trombone jingoists, but it is still very informative:

http://www.trombone-society.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=517&sid=54bc0381265b04880d1b3b1803aa7404



The best overall source on this issue is the book _The Tuba Family_  by 
Clifford Bevan.
 

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra



d. sleeman wrote:

>Listmates,
>
>I have been asked to play the tuba part in Verdi's opera I Lombardi.
>
>Shouldn't that be a (contra)bass trombone or a cimbasso instead?
>
>Regards,
>
>Dick Sleeman, Lelystad, Holland. <d.sleeman at hccnet.nl>
>
>  
>