[Trombone-l] Scriptural reference for the sackbut

[Raymond Horton]

Latin Bible originals!  Sacbuts in the Bible!   etc., etc.   We are 
throwing around some genuine misinformation here!


Old Testament mss.are in Hebrew, although most of Daniel and some of 
Ezra is in Aramaic.. 
New Testament mss.are in Greek.  (There is likely some Aramaic 
background to the gospels, however - specifiacally, many scholars feel 
the words of Jesus are originally Aramaic.)


None of those mss. are Latin, although the Latin Vulgate is an important 
early translation.


A good site to check to compare many English translations, and many 
other languages (including Greek, if you can decipher the book names) is:


www.biblegateway.com/


There you can compare most of the current translations to see how 
instruments in different passages are translated, for example.


There were NO literal "sackbuts" (from the Spanish sacabuche, 
"pull-tube") in biblical times, period.  Our own resident scholar Howard 
Weiner has an EXCELLENT article in the latest issue (Volume 17, I 
believe?) of /Historic Brass Society Journal /which helps date the 
earliest sackbut, depicted in art, at least, at between 1450 and 1490 (I 
am greatly summarizing - read the whole issue - it is really fine).  The 
King James translators were here using a word to which the audience of 
1611 could relate, just as Eugene Peters, the man behind the intriguing 
modern paraphrase (not a literal translation) _The Message_ tries to do 
the same for today's reader with passages that sound like "The Music 
Man' with lists of  "the tubas and baritones...cymbals and a big bass 
drum."   (It's a wonder he hasn't substituted spinning turntables and 
samples on I-Pods...)


Otherwise terminology can be argued - I am NOT a Hebrew or Greek 
scholar.  (I do have a Seminary degree, but church music majors were not 
required to take either language.  I wish I could have swung the time 
for Greek, but Hebrew was a BEAR, from what I understand!) 


Modern use in the English translations of both testaments, of "trumpet," 
a word which carries a diminutive ("'et") is is very common.  IIRC, it 
is used (again, I am NOT a Hebrew or Greek scholar) for both a Hebrew 
and Greek original which does not have a diminutive (hence the 
translation, sometimes, as "trump").  I believe this may be one reason 
behind the German Bible's (NT) use of the larger "Posaune" instead of 
the smaller "Trompete," to which everyone who has gotten to play the 
Mozart "Tuba Mirum" should be forever grateful.


Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist,
Louisville (KY) Orchestra
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church

B. Music (Trombone) M. Music (Composition), U. of Louisville, 1974, 1976
Master of Church Music, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, 1981


--------------------------
Michael Shoshani wrote:

>On Wednesday 03 May 2006 21.00, Bill Dinwiddie wrote:
>  
>
>>OK, I know this list is not a religious resource, but, wasn't the majority
>>of the bible rewritten in English as the King James Version? Many of these
>>instrumental references are very likely translated from Latin or Greek or
>>some other language, and so we see references to cornets and sackbuts, and
>>dulcimers, etc., which were actually current at the time of the
>>translation, perhaps in the 1400's. I doubt the sackbut existed in 535 BC,
>>but the shofar, or ram's horn, probably existed a lot earlier. Some of our
>>Jewish members may have in fact played a shofar, as they are still used in
>>religious cermonies...I hear they are pretty tough to get a good sound on.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>The shofar has been around at least since it was blown by Joshua & Co. to 
>trigger the collapse of the walls of Jericho.  It is actually quite simply 
>blown - it's pressed against the fleshy part of the inner lips, which are 
>blown against the mouthpiece to sort of force the buzzing.
>
>The KJV was finished in 1611 and borrowed very heavily from earlier English 
>translations, including the Geneva Bible and especially the Bible of William 
>Tyndale.  It is quite common for the KJV (and I presume the earlier English 
>translations) to use contemporary images to represent items or objects in the 
>original texts that would perhaps be obscure to the reader at the time. Thus 
>you will find trumpets, cornets, sackbuts, etc, replacing the shofar (which 
>is the horn of a ram, goat, or ibex) , and psaltries  augmenting the 
>hand-held harp.  
>
>The very last Psalm (150) is a song of praise invoking a whole litany of 
>instruments.  In  the third verse the Hebrew for 'praise Him with blasts of 
>the shofar' becomes 'praise Him with the sound of the trumpet'.  Few people 
>in early 17th Century England knew what a shofar was, but nearly everyone 
>could identify the heraldic trumpet. The spirit of the psalm was kept intact, 
>even as the phraseology was altered.
>
>The KJV is remarkably inconsistent in this sort of thing, however...in the 
>Pentateuch it retains the ancient Israelite units of weights and 
>measurements, but elsewhere trades them in for weights (such as pounds) and 
>measurements more familiar to the reading audience of the day.
>
>Michael Shoshani
>Chicago
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