[Trombone-l] Is music to their ears a threat to hearing?

Thu Mar 16 17:17:24 CST 2006

So what you're saying is that people exposed to my playing for over a 
half hour will suffer dame bramage!?

I played a club not too long ago, and the sound guy had a VU meter on 
us. He clocked me at 105db -- bulldozer level.

I didn't say it was good. But at least I was loud!

Cheers!
-D-
www.radionoise.com <- Rock star by night
www.burchinteractive.com <- Tech-nerd by day #;-)

On Mar 16, 2006, at 12:04 PM, Cliff Crawford wrote:

> The OSHA standard requires a "hearing conservation program" for 
> employees
> that are exposed 85 db measured over an 8 hour time weighted average.  
> 93 db
> will damage ears after a few hours of exposure.  Levels of 115 db (as 
> loud
> as a chain saw) will cause damage after less than a half an hour 
> exposure.
> These are approximations, but from my experience, are pretty accurate.
>
> Cliff C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Tune" <crtune at adelphia.net>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>; "Doug Rowe" <darowe at gmail.com>
> Cc: "List Trombone" <TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Is music to their ears a threat to hearing?
>
>
>> Certainly.  Deep pockets. Interesting though, that I could use my 
>> Radio
>> Shack dB meter to set up the volume levels on my studio monitors to 
>> the
>> <93
>> dB level recommended by OSHA, but I'd have a hard time figuring out
>> whether
>> I'm getting more or less than that in my earbuds.  Even though I 
>> rarely
>> listen to rock, choosing instead to listen mostly to big band jazz,
>> combos,
>> and classical, I'm certainly getting some high levels for some part 
>> of the
>> time while listening on earbuds.
>>
>> I'm concerned.  Luckily, right now I've just got the usual 
>> audiological
>> dropoff in the very high frequencies that most men in their late 
>> fourties
>> have happening.  I didn't spend too much time in rock bands way back 
>> in
>> the
>> day, and I've tried to use Norton Sonic II's when sitting in front of 
>> loud
>> trumpets, or when on stage with a loud rock band.  So, I hope to keep 
>> my
>> hearing!
>>
>> Frankly, I remember the Who concert and the Stones concert I went to 
>> years
>> ago, and they were simply way too loud.  The audience was getting 
>> around
>> 115
>> dB pretty solidly.  This was going on for hours.  If you regularly do
>> this,
>> you WILL suffer hearing loss.  The anatomy simply cannot take this 
>> kind of
>> sound.
>>
>> I was thinking about this at lunch yesterday.  Perhaps the best way to
>> judge
>> sound level in a set of earbuds, is to put a VOM in-line with the
>> headphone
>> circuit and read the milli-volts coming thru the circuit.  Based upon 
>> the
>> efficiency (which my earbud manufacturer was kind enough to suppy) 
>> perhaps
>> I
>> could estimate the sound level. . .any suggestions from the 
>> electronics
>> buffs would be appreciated.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> To: "Doug Rowe" <darowe at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "List Trombone" <TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Is music to their ears a threat to hearing?
>>
>>
>>> Well, ear buds are standard issue on many devices.  My Silent Brass
>>> came with ear buds, my mini-disc came with ear buds.  Walkmans were
>>> coming with those funky Sony phones that went into your ear in the
>>> late 80's.  My point is that none of these issues are iPod specific,
>>> or even digital music player specific, which makes  it look like a
>>> case of people picking on the big guy because he is popular and has
>>> lots of money.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> On Mar 15, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Doug Rowe wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, folks have had head phones for a long time, but I think the
>>>> biggest
>>>> change are the "ear buds."  While these were available before, they
>>>> were
>>>> not "standard equipment" like they are with the iPod.  Regular
>>>> headphones are not inserted into the ear, and allow for some of the
>>>> audio to bleed into the outside world (with the exception of the big
>>>> muffin type that covered the entire ear).  The ear buds are pressed
>>>> further into the ear, closer to the inner ear.  There just isn't as
>>>> much
>>>> physical space for the sound to dissipate between the ear bud
>>>> output and
>>>> the auditory cells that can be easily damaged.  Since the ear buds 
>>>> are
>>>> standard equipment, more people are using them, but at the same 
>>>> volume
>>>> as with the head phones.  Thus more people damaging their hearing.  
>>>> Or
>>>> something along those lines.
>>>>
>>>> d.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> People have had portable players with headphones since the 80's.
>>>>> Are they
>>>>> saying Walkmans didn't make kids deaf because they had to stop to
>>>>> change the
>>>>> tape?  I agree that there can be hearing issues with headphone
>>>>> listening,
>>>>> but it is not new or unique to the iPod.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/15/06, Mikel K. Smith <mikelksmith at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to wonder if the manufacturers aren't setting them up for
>>>>>> a rash of
>>>>>> lawsuits a'la big tobacco... "But they didn't warn me that it
>>>>>> would make
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> deaf"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mikel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: trombone-l-bounces at maillists.samford.edu
>>>>>> [mailto:trombone-l-bounces at maillists.samford.edu]On Behalf Of Bill
>>>>>> Dinwiddie
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:23 AM
>>>>>> To: List Trombone
>>>>>> Subject: [Trombone-l] Is music to their ears a threat to hearing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From today's Chicago Tribune. I think it is highly relevant to
>>>>>> trombonists
>>>>>> and others.
>>>>>> Bill Dinwiddie
>>>>>> billdin at comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is music to their ears a threat to hearing?
>>>>>> iPods are convenient, hip and possibly the reason some teens,
>>>>>> young adults
>>>>>> show signs of hearing loss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Frank James
>>>>>> Washington Bureau
>>>>>> Published March 15, 2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WASHINGTON -- A disturbing number of high school students and
>>>>>> adults are
>>>>>> reporting early signs of hearing loss, and hearing experts think
>>>>>> they know
>>>>>> the culprits: iPods and similar portable devices that allow
>>>>>> people to
>>>>>> funnel
>>>>>> loud sounds into their ears for hours on end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More research is needed to conclusively establish the link
>>>>>> between the
>>>>>> cords
>>>>>> dangling from millions of ears and hearing difficulties. But
>>>>>> scientists
>>>>>> suspect the increasing prevalence of the devices is contributing
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> rising number of people reporting some form of hearing loss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fears and debates about loud music have been around since the
>>>>>> dawn of rock
>>>>>> 'n' roll, of course, from Elvis Presley to the Beatles, Black
>>>>>> Sabbath to
>>>>>> Nirvana.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the leaps in technology that are allowing commuters on a bus
>>>>>> or kids
>>>>>> walking to high school to feel like they're at a deafening
>>>>>> concert are
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> channeling ever higher volumes of music more directly, and
>>>>>> longer, onto
>>>>>> eardrums.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hearing experts who called a news conference here Tuesday to
>>>>>> voice their
>>>>>> fears didn't use the words "crisis" or "epidemic," but it was
>>>>>> clear they
>>>>>> were worried about the results of a survey conducted last month
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> polling firm Zogby International.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Survey worries experts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Twenty-eight percent of high school students questioned said they
>>>>>> had to
>>>>>> turn up the volume on a TV or radio to hear it better, for
>>>>>> example, and 29
>>>>>> percent of the teenagers said they often found themselves saying,
>>>>>> "What?"
>>>>>> and "Huh?" during normal conversation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though that may sound like ordinary behavior for some teenagers,
>>>>>> audiologists are taking it seriously, especially because the adult
>>>>>> percentages weren't much lower.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The results should give pause to anyone who's concerned about the
>>>>>> nation's
>>>>>> hearing health," said Alex Johnson, president of the American
>>>>>> Speech-Language-Hearing Association, based in Rockville, Md. The
>>>>>> survey
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> conducted for the group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "While the cause of the symptoms was not identified, the polling
>>>>>> showed
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> people are listening louder and longer--habits made easier by
>>>>>> strides in
>>>>>> listening technology, but ones that may also contribute to hearing
>>>>>> damage,"
>>>>>> said Johnson, chairman of the audiology and speech-language
>>>>>> pathology
>>>>>> department at Wayne State University.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The polling results and warnings mirror concerns voiced by other
>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>> experts in recent years. These experts estimate that more than 28
>>>>>> million
>>>>>> Americans have some hearing loss, a figure that some think will
>>>>>> reach 80
>>>>>> million in 25 years as Baby Boomers age.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Johnson and others suggested that consumers take precautions,
>>>>>> including
>>>>>> parents monitoring the volume of the music as well as how long 
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> children listen to it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The experts also recommended consumers buy the often pricey
>>>>>> headphones
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> block out external sounds like subway or airplane noise, the idea
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> consumers then wouldn't need to crank up the volume to overcome
>>>>>> background
>>>>>> noise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And they suggested that manufacturers limit the volume on their
>>>>>> products.
>>>>>> Dean Garstecki, a communication sciences and medical professor at
>>>>>> Northwestern University, said, "I think companies who produce 
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> products
>>>>>> have an obligation to limit the output of the devices to a level
>>>>>> that does
>>>>>> not cause hearing loss." He noted that hearing-aid makers do as
>>>>>> much in
>>>>>> order to prevent causing additional hearing loss.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Government limits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If manufacturers of the portable devices do not act voluntarily,
>>>>>> Garstecki
>>>>>> suggested the U.S. government could follow the French example.
>>>>>> France set
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> 100-decibel limit on iPods and other devices, but there is no
>>>>>> such limit
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the U.S. Apple Computer Inc., iPod's manufacturer, temporarily
>>>>>> removed the
>>>>>> devices from French stores to update the software to meet the 
>>>>>> legal
>>>>>> restriction, according to a lawsuit filed against Apple by a
>>>>>> Louisiana man
>>>>>> who claimed an iPod damaged his hearing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Dowling, an Apple spokesman, said he had no comment on the
>>>>>> Zogby
>>>>>> poll,
>>>>>> conducted Feb. 20-22.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The two lawmakers who appeared at Tuesday's news conference--
>>>>>> Reps. Edward
>>>>>> Markey (D-Mass.) and Mike Ferguson (R-N.J.)--did not seem intent
>>>>>> on a
>>>>>> legislative fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeming to wax nostalgic, Ferguson said, "Listening to music that
>>>>>> annoys
>>>>>> parents at incredibly high volumes is a rite of passage for kids
>>>>>> of any
>>>>>> generation."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But he put much of the onus on parents. "As parents, we talk to
>>>>>> our kids
>>>>>> about looking both ways before crossing the street," he said. "We
>>>>>> talk to
>>>>>> our kids about not talking to strangers. We also need to talk
>>>>>> with them
>>>>>> about the lifelong damage that could be caused by misusing
>>>>>> personal music
>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Markey said he plans to work with Ferguson to press the industry
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> National Institutes of Health for more research on the role
>>>>>> portable media
>>>>>> devices play in hearing loss and solutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The experts also warned that no one should take hearing loss
>>>>>> lightly, that
>>>>>> it can have major consequences, even when it is seemingly only
>>>>>> minimal and
>>>>>> particularly when it occurs in children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anne Marie Tharpe, a hearing and speech sciences professor at
>>>>>> Vanderbilt
>>>>>> University, said research indicated children with such deficits 
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> "failing in school at a rate of 10 times their peers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "My point is that minimal hearing loss is not inconsequential for
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> children," she said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fjames at tribune.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Copyright (c) 2006, Chicago Tribune
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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