union/radio city was Re: [Trombone-l] No Bands

richard.bartkus at cox.net richard.bartkus at cox.net
Tue Nov 29 18:21:12 CST 2005


Well said.  I am afraid that the "Fast Food" culture has bled into music and the arts in general.  Perhaps it can be traced to schools cutting art/music programs in the primary grades.  As each generation passes, we lose more until someday Advertising jingles will be considered fine music.  


> From: dslide13 at aol.com
> Date: 2005/11/29 Tue PM 07:01:06 EST
> To: jeff at jeffalbert.com,  thetubameister at adelphia.net
> CC: TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu,  Dansatt at aol.com
> Subject: Re: union/radio city was Re: [Trombone-l] No Bands
> I just had this conversation with my dad.  It started as we discussed 
> the recent congressionally inspired concessions by the MLB Players 
> Association regarding the steriod/amphetimines policy.  It could be 
> argued that sports is too trivial for congress to be involved, but I'm 
> glad they took a stand.  At least they weren't screwing something else 
> up while they pressured MLB to shun the 'roids.
> I told my dad that you couldn't annoint Selig a saint in light of the 
> changes, considering the fact that he and the players benefited from 
> the effects of steroids on the home run race, etc...He took umbrage to 
> my opinion and complained that the players assoc. would never have 
> agreed to the new policy without the congressional pressure.  My 
> comment at that point was, "so what?!"  The union is not in the 
> business of protecting baseball, but protecting baseball players.  I 
> don't think that's an admirable position on their part, but it seems to 
> be the case with most unions.  In this case, the union protects the 
> players and management protects its stake in the business while 
> baseball, the game, suffers.  So, both sides are killing the thing 
> bringing them to the table.
> The problem in comparing this situation to musicians is that lay people 
> are so disconnected from the language of music that they have no sense 
> of value attached to it.  It's too bad that parents don't watch how 
> much their kids love music and see the value in it.  The word "value" 
> has morphed from "worth" to "cheap".  "Cheap" is the trump card that is 
> gobbling up everything of intangible worth, in America.
> David Gibson
> trombonist/educator
> www.jazzbone.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> To: thetubameister at adelphia.net
> Cc: TROMBONE-L at server5.samford.edu; Dansatt at aol.com
> Sent: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:46:53 -0600
> Subject: union/radio city was Re: [Trombone-l] No Bands
>  On Nov 29, 2005, at 3:04 PM, <thetubameister at adelphia.net> wrote:
>   > Our union(s) also needs to grow a spine - while it might still 
> matter.
>  >
>   > Whenever I hear about the Radio City or New York Musicians losing > 
> any ground, I roll my eyes at the complicitness of our union to > 
> participate in it's own demise. Some argue the nuances of argument > 
> and negotiation, to save a limited number of positions, and thus > 
> perpetuating and accelerating the example to the next obstacle and > 
> board - "we'll give up anything to work!". How very shortsighted.
>   I don't know the inside of the situation, but I do know some 
> dislocated New Orleans musicians that were approached about the gig 
> before it became very public. There are always 2 sides to every story. 
> The side that was presented to them (the NO cats) was that the NY 
> musicians that had a tenured 10 week a year gig, many of whom were 
> making $40k in those 10 weeks) were looking for concessions like 
> getting paid even when they subbed out. Now, like I said this is all 
> hearsay, and it came from the management side so take it with an ex-lax 
> or grain of salt or whatever.
>   I guess the point I am getting to is that if we expect management not 
> to act like greedy money grubbing bums when they negotiate with us, 
> then we owe them the same consideration. That's the problem with 
> labor/management relations. They are built in an adversarial manner, 
> with neither side really being aware of the eco-system they both live 
> in.
>   Many of you know my feelings about the union, so I'll spare you all 
> that rant again. If you don't know how I feel about it and are curious, 
> read this: http://www.jeffalbert.com/wordpress/?p=7
>  Jeff
>  =====================
>  Jeff Albert
>  www.jeffalbert.com
>  www.scratchmybrain.com
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