I have had my Holton 181 for about 20 years. still a great horn Joe L. Norcross Tuba: Visalia CA Sequoia Winds Bass Trombone: Clovis CA Community Band Tuba and Announcer: Kingsburg CA City Band joetuba at lightspeed.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Redgate" <billredgate at comcast.net> To: "Donna Lucas and Louis Jensen"